The dirty little secrets of grid tie solar.

What is the biggest one is that it increases the requirements for so called rotating load generation and transmissions lines. Regular generators have to be there and lines to carry the power, a system to distribute the power, and people to operate it and maintain it. The power company can not shut down their plant because you have solar on your roof and have to charge someone to keep it their system in place. While they know that you will have peaks when you are "selling" power to the system, they do not know if tomorrow will be cloudy for certain. They do know that solar power is very limited in NH and don't get me started on those panels pointed due east that will at best get half the expected power or the ones I see on the way to work that are covered with leaves or snow and at less than the best angles.

New Hampshire | TurbineGenerator

Thus in NH we can expect at the best about 3 1/2 hours of peak winter sun on a good day on a properly set and clean panel for the 90 days a year that we expect to be cloud free.

The system deploying the panels and the home owner expect to get full value for their power, but ignore the effects of time shifting. The "price of power, controlling and distributing it" may be x cents per kwh on a cloud free day with a 20 mph wind and all renewables at full efficiency. It well may be 5 or 10 times higher on a very cold windless night when the least efficient plant is burning the most expensive fuel and paying a peak rate of 3 times the summer price for that fuel or they are importing power at whatever the system allows for a limit . Still the grid tie people scream that they get x for their power and have to pay 2 x to buy it back. The costs are there, just arguments on who will pay for the power at at what price.

So far the only way the system makes sense is if you can get someone else to pay for part of it and you take all the perks that come with being green. Either the non grid tie electric users pay extra on their electric bills or it is shared with some government taxes the population as a whole to subsidize your green dreams. The whole problem as is in all Ponzi schemes, at some point there are no enough new suckers to pay off the old suckers and continue to expand. We may soon find out where the green dream is on the Ponzi curve.,

While I could go on the sources of the inputs, China etc for panels, God knows where for the copper for wiring, plastics for insulation, controllers with a limited life in my solar systems, and such. The whole problem of even maintaining the existing grid system and not expanding with some dream renewables for the new dream green loads of transportation and home heating are beyond my comprehension so I will end this rant at this point'

 

I'm clear or mostly sunny for 300+ days a year. Probably 4 out of 5 days I get perfect solar generation.
Putting solar in places like Maine, NH is stupid. A few times I went with out seeing the sun for 3 weeks straight. Every year guaranteed you will got about a week at least once in the fall/winter with no sun.

 

You are lucky, we get some clear weather, but it tends to be the artic highs, clear very cold short winter days and long winter nights. As well as having poor solar as large pine trees 75 feet from house, good wind breaks but do a number on winter sun for solar.. Use solar in greenhouse and works well, but shut that down for winter as unheated. Gives enough with limited batteries for winter use of greenhouse so happy with that.

Some solar for house but not grid tie.

 

For off grid it makes sense there.

 

even stupider in Alaska


in willow, Alaska - north of Las Anchorage.

 

If I'm gonna go off-grid, then I'm gonna go completely off-grid!

 

I can drive to two gubmint subsided solar farms that have been in place for two years and are tied to....nothing. There seems to be a scam going on to collect the cash for installing these things and never hooking them up.

 

I have grid tied solar. #1 over size it. Some power companies only let you size it based on last year’s average consumption. Over consume for a year, install solar, put in energy efficiencies to consume less. #2 never rent that shit. It will lose money and you might not be able to sell your house with it on there. The whole rental thing seems to be worse on the coasts. #3 know your area. You know what your weather is like. Here in the mid west we have many sunny days even in the winter. Butt cold but sunny. #4 know your power company. Ours gives credits in kilowatts sent to the grid. We get one for one. This is not to say that you don’t have to monitor them, you do. They tried to get shady on us over the summer but just by asking the question and getting them out to check the meter it went back to normal. #5 after you have your system installed look at getting a sol-ark that can let you run your house during the day even if the grid is down. They make emp resistant ones. They can control, grid tie in, solar panels, generator and batteries all at once. #6 if you live in the snow belt invest in a long handled snow rake to keep your panels clear in the winter as much as possible.

 

Great points to keep in mind.

We're looking into adding solar here. With as much wind as we get I'd like to also add a turbine of some sorts. Not really interested, or rather not do grid tie in, because I don't want monitoring/being controlled/whatever.

 

I am sure these are ok, but I really distrust all-in-one assemblies. Charge controller dies - you just lost your system. I also am leery of a company that claims 98% efficiency in an AGM battery and a total of 3.5% system losses.

 

What a waste of time !
Even here PNW of Kanada , its almost a waste , but banking PHB is good.
S

All true , As i Do also here!

 

Recently saw a pricing index for Australian power markets. Where around a third of homes have grid tie solar, depending who you ask, the numbers are anywhere from 25% to "over 40%" their electricity market is so screwed up that around noon about the time solar panels peak they actually pay you to use electricity. Then the price can go as high as 44 Australian Pecos per kwh that's 2 to 3 times typical US high pricing and 4 and a half half times what I pay.

 

Solar power scams?
Nobody tax scams like Utah

Delta Solar Ruins – Hinckley, Utah - Atlas Obscura




This is a few miles from my DW hometown in Utah.
Total scam, but it took the FedGov years to shut it down.

Now the area hosts these



this one is 600 ac and 100% of the power goes to SoCal....Surprise!

 

Funniest solar idea I saw, was solar pavement, for highways. Generates power while people are driving on it. Of course, during rush hour (slower traffic) or accidents causing backups, it might drop the power generation a bit!

Of course, they didn't bother bringing up the cost to install and maintain, or the cost to replace, after how long? Can't imagine it would do well with frost heave, but they claimed it would generate enough to power heaters that would keep the snowfall off the road, thus saving in the cost of plows. Disregard the fact that that power is now NOT going into the grid!

I have to wonder how well it would handle a blizzard in the mountain passes? Where you can see FEET of snow, per hour, coming down.

 

If you don't plan for the low times, you pay the consequences.
I saw hard times with power as a kid in the mountains and we did something about it.
Generators and batteries and solar and wind generation have existed for over 100 years.
I am low income, have been all my life and now retired, and off grid solar.
If you make something a priority you can make it work doing the best with what you got.
I started off with mostly used equipment some-one else was making an up-grade from. No shame in that.
Fact is any contribution is appreciated even a small solar panel putting out an amp is better than nothing.
Over all, LEARNING is far more important, and starting small at first.
Even in a grid-tie situation one can still operate and battery charger with the grid and maintain a battery bank without solar and have an inverter for when the grid is down. As a matter of fact, I ran my home (Lighting) off solar charged batteries and only relied on the grid for big equipment.
If you don't know anything about the electricity you use, what does that make you?
I graduated High school with Cs and Ds, and they ushered me out not believing I would make much of my life. I'm 72 and retired.
I learned what I wanted to learn and applied my self to what I thought was important.
When the grid goes down who is going to hold your hand, there won't be electricity, phones or internet to turn to.
If you build your own system, you will be a lot further ahead than the next guy.

 

this is BS , I turn the meter backwards and run my house on pure solar !!
Shaking my head again , S

 

A reminder that 80% off the solar systems need the net ! No net the shut down,no power. So make it that your system can run in what the call island mode operation.

 

Until low cost mass storage gets sorted for solar, it will always be --second fiddle, at best.

Microsoft data centre using Ambri’s liquid metal battery in UPS - Energy-Storage.News
Liquid metal batteries have touted as the Next Big Thing - but have yet to be emplaced to any degree.

 

Scuttlebutt is the only solar panel USA made will be down here close to me? We shall see.