The Gun Debates

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Motomom34, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    I admit I am sick of the gun debates. Every shooting it is the same thing. I am tired of people being scared of a black military looking gun but unable to research and figure out that some wood stock guns are just as worse or can make bigger holes. I myself have used the slippery slope argument but is banning a bump stock really taking away ones right to bear arms? Am I being infringed upon if I cannot add something to my weapon that makes it fire faster?

    It is not going to stop. Moms Demand Action Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America is gaining members and I have been reading reports that they are gaining power and could become as forceful as Mothers Against Drunk Drivers. MADD changed laws, so keep an eye on Moms Demand Action. I question if arming teachers will really work because it takes a certain person to move towards a potentially deadly situation. From the news, we learned that deputies stayed outside while children were being shot so why would we assume that a teacher is more courageous?

    I read a thread months back that asked:
    So is there a common solution to this gun debate? One side is terrified at the sight of a tool they do not understand while the other side yells, "shall not be infringed". This is NOT a political parties labeling debate or discussion. This is a plea to citizens, people to tell me what the solution is or if there can ever be a solution that will appease both sides of the debate because right now I only see arguing and no solutions.
  2. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    do NOT believe the "MOM's" onLine BS Hype they spread around... They had fewer than 3000 members in the country, before this bruHaHa and even if they tripled their membership over night, that still only gives them 9000.... and even if you believe their OWN stupid Hype they only have 40K and triple that, gets you 120K... Which is NOTHING when compared to the NRA, and that is before ADDING up the SAF, and GOA, and a few others....
  3. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Moms has over 700,000 on their FB alone. Do not dismiss them. They demand action and solutions. I do not support the NRA anymore 1. because of their continual solicitations for money. 2. because I rarely give money to politicians and NRA is always playing politics.

    What is the common solution? What will make you happy and the Moms happy?
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  4. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    When are you going to get it that FaceBook, Twitter, and Social Media Accounts are 75% FAKE, Especially when run by Outfits with a Political Agenda... Anyone can go BUY Access top Hundreds of Thousands of FAKE Accounts, and BOTs, on the Dark Web, for just a few Bucks... Gad... I can't believe the lack of understanding of the nonTech folks on the Internet... This is how the Russians, the CIA, North Koreans, Chinese, and every TwoBit Outfit that wants to push their BS out in the world, communicates....
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  5. Byte

    Byte Monkey+++

    If their happiness hinges on me doing anything, then there is no solution. I am not obligated in anyway to compromise on anything. And I won't. I will not give up anything they request of me. I'm perfectly content with that.
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  6. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    Which in itself indicates they have no clue what actions or solutions would have an impact, let alone what is legal and constitutional.
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  7. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    You will never make the MOM's happy until all firearms are deemed illegal and confiscation has been completed, or I should say; attempted. It will be like the Prohibition era, the only difference will be that crime rates will soar and no one will have the ability to defend themselves against the lawless.

    People die in cars every day, yet there is no demand to rid our society of the automobile. That is because nearly everyone needs a vehicle to get to work, go shopping, take vacations, get the kids to and from school. It is a convenient tool and therefore the fact that the number of annual deaths from automobile accidents far exceeds gun related deaths doesn't matter to them.

    The mentality, I feel; stems from the choice some have made that they do not need nor want a firearm. That decision is fine, with one exception; that being they feel you should not have one either. Put that in parallel with some who would feel that there should not be any automobiles, because they see no need for themselves or anyone else to have one and start to see where I feel they are coming from.

    There is no common solution... Never will be....
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I get an almost chuckle with all these various vocal "organizations" and "protests" that DEMAND that someone do something. Demanding is one thing as tho' persuading by noise level will do aught but turn off the audience and clear the room. The latest example is that silly little shorn headed bisexual 17 year old self described activist that is gutsy enough to speak up. If she should gain a bit of wisdom and attack where the vulnerability lies, then maybe, just maybe, the noise and sympathetic vibrations may be heard. But demands using faulty logic? Bugger off.
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  9. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Whether 2 members or 2 million, they want solutions to the gun violence and so do I but I do not want to give up my guns. We need to find a solution.

    There has to be a solution. I applaud what you wrote because you are thinking about this issue. I am seeing gun owners starting to throw out compromises like agreeing to get rid of the bump stock or submitting to stronger background checks but that will not appease the gun haters.

    I often find people get every vocal if something is threatened to be taken from them.
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  10. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Somehow, I have doubts about how many of those witnesses are actual members or sympathize with the cause. I've a notion that a lot of those watching are apt to be laughing up their sleeves when what passes for logic is delivered as a pronouncement and complaint 'cause someone needs to do SOMETHING. Dunno, and am not going to join to find out. The bits that show up in web screen shots of commentary hold more facts than the original postings.

    So far as compromise goes, my first thought is "What do I get for giving up what?" Crickets, mostly, shows up.

    Then there is the persistent term "gun violence." At the sure and certain risk, I'll mention "vehicle violence" as something that needs a solution. Now, getting toward the snarky side, it seems that both guns and cars cause deaths, therefore need solutions. What do I get for giving up my car?
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  11. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    You get peace and harmony with your fellow Americans. You get the peace of not having to debate and discuss the same talking points after every event. Plus not everyone will always get a prize.

    I know some of you could not give 2 shits but I plan on living for many, many years. I also have a child in public schools. I have children that go to concerts. We are living our lives and violence is always looming. I doubt we can ever keep the guns away from the crazies but is there some sort of solution?

    After a shooting incident has anyone ever talked to someone who opposes guns? Have you ever changed anyone's mind regarding the gun debate?
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  12. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I should compromise a right to get some silence? I seem to remember some silence that resulted in a LOT of deaths, some quote the number of 8 million. I'll not be one of those, and cannot advocate for those that think paying for peace and quiet by being silent and giving in to demands for "common sense" solutions is worth it.

    There are a lot of people that recently have criticized the NRA for considering backing the bump stock prohibition. I also am not happy about that, but there is no other organization with the coffers and stroke to speak up for gun owners in general. We, those of us that remain members, can at least make our little squeaks add up. In fact, I'm happy to let the anti's expend their ammo on the NRA rather than me.

    To add, after one of these "incidents" there is exactly no point to talking to any one that opposes gun ownership. Reason has generally taken flight in the aftermath. Yes, I tried, and frankly gave up. A month later, talk was possible once the ear plugs came out. It's like dealing with kids, sometimes you need to wait them out.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  13. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    Its a mental health issue in almost all mass shootings but its very easy to blame the gun it does not talk back
  14. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    This isn't a debate. A debate is a discussion or argument conducted in a formal manner.
    What this is a tirade at best. At worse, a prelude to a civil war.
    You probably couldn't get any further apart. Ban all on one side, Never give up on the other.
    Way, way too much in between to reach an agreement that either side would agree upon.

    I've had plenty of discussion with those opposed to guns. After hours and hours of discussion, we agreed to disagree. They feel that weapons of war have no place in the hands of regular people, I mentioned how about the police having weapons of war, who are they at war with? Us? It went back and forth for quite a while.

    I've found it better to talk with someone that is on the fence. One trip to the shooting range for training on operation, safe handling and boxes and boxes of ammo .. yep they leave with perma grins and I've converted another one. Guns aren't bad and they can actually be a lot of fun. It's all about the person that is holding the firearm. And yes, each one has determined their favorite firearm because it feels the best, looks the best, they shoot with it the best and one comment was I love the recoil.

    I actually feel safer that these individuals now know how hold, clear and make safe multiple types of firearms, so just in case they come across one .. they will not kill themselves or others by accident.

    Anyway, the issue of guns will not be resolved without forcing ones will upon another.

    Just my observations.
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  15. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    And good observations as well. The trick is finding a fence sitter to work on. At best, the time to find one is NOT in the immediate aftermath of one of these mass shootings. That is when minds are twisted and changed, but after a while return to middle of the road. (That would be called "emotional reaction" in any textbook.)

    And then there is my observation about the aftermath of the recent Texas exercise. The kids are going back to school today under, um, "tight" security. The barn door is now shut, a week or so too late, methinks. I'd like someone in the area to document the stand down that will happen when all the emotion is expended.
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  16. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    There can be no solution to this, its impossible to have a thoughtfull and meaningful discussion with one side devolving to demanding, and even though they use the term "Compromise," once the demands start, compromise becomes a fantasy! Its pretty much devided us as a people so much that any chance of discussion went away a very long time ago!
    So, what can be done Now? If we sit and do nothing, eventually the politicians and lobbing groups will gain enough ground to remove all guns, even though they say they support the 2nd, they don' give a shit about our 2nd rights, they believe that a unarmed society will be a peaceful society if the playing field is leveled in their minds! Some how, the facts never matter to them, they deny the truth of the matter, no matter how much it makes sence, and give in to emotions! Once emotions take the lead, every thing stops cold!
    Look at Nazi Germany in the late 30s, how could thousands and thousands do nothing while thousands more were rounded up and executed? Simple, the tools to protest, protect, and defend were seized and the genocide went forward unchecked! That't well documented history, and is very much apropos to discussions today! What would happen in this country today if suddenly all guns were seized, by force if needed? What would follow? Would a group of people be swept up and slaughtered? Would a fringe group of Billionares seize power and take over management? What means would we have to stop such an event? How could we as a people rise up and stop such actions? As fragmented as we are now, imagine if friends and neighbors suddenly disappear, or worse, friends and neighbors turn on each other and report each other for a small reward and a pat on the head? Point of all this is proof that history denied is history bound to be repeated!
    So, we have no choice any more, we give in to all demands, or we rise up and spill blood to defend freedom! The left has left us no other choice when they remove compromise from the table and replace it with demands! Sorry Motomom34, the time has past for any thing meanfull to be done about all this violence! There can be no compromise! And it' far more then the gun, it always has been, but the left want a to hide that from the sheeple! Fact of the matter is, once they take the guns, they have the means to take what ever else they desire, and to do what ever they want completey unchecked! Gun control cannot work when only one side has them, a balance of power must exist or one side dominates over the other! I will not give up my freedoms with out a fight, I will not give up my 1st or my 3,4,5,act freedoms, it's those freedoms, won and held by the point of a sword that we must fight to the death to maintain, and thankfully, we have the most powerful means to protect and defend those rights, and it's the 2nd that gives us that! Nothing else matters once the 2nd is lost, Period!
  17. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Already have tougher back ground checks but the government can't seem to figure out how to implement them, even 5 years later.
  18. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Background checks are the most ridiculous measures ever devised. Sure, they may keep some felons from buying a gun over the counter, but you can never determine what a person is going to do in the future. Background checks are only as good as the information in the data base. If mental illness is never reported, then the mentally ill will have legal access to guns, if the use of anti-depressants is never reported than those who have those issues will have access to guns, if those who consistently have brushes with the law but are never placed under arrest, or that information is never entered into NICS, then those people will have legal access to guns.

    This is the problem with people. Some make mistakes young in life and become honest contributing adults in our society. Others make one mistake after another and end up in the justice system. Then there are those whose behavior cannot be accurately predicted. This month, they may be just fine; then suddenly something sets them off.

    The anti's cannot and will not soften their tone or have an intellectual discussion, thus the "Kill the NRA" graffiti on billboards in some cities, shouting an yelling instead of constructive discourse, marching in the streets shouting demands, riots, destruction of public and private property, and outright threats. When the argument fails there are some that have no option other than to become violent. How could any background check capture that?

    I just don't see any of the options the anti gunners put on the table as being viable and they reject everything that we all know will work.
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  19. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    First, really good posts, folks!

    "meaningful discussion with one side devolving to demanding"
    This is the first real step. When both sides are willing to compromise and both side stop demanding then you might get results but until then...nothing...except angry taunts and curse words.

    @Motomom34 "...why would we assume that a teacher is more courageous?"
    First and foremost, self-preservation. Second, almost all adults are wired to protect children. Third, and it's a big one: training. But, understand arming teachers is just one of the tools that could help deter shootings. However, I do believe this would be the greatest deterrent.

    Personally, I am ready to compromise. I will give them Bump Stocks and a minimum 21-yr old for purchase and possession. I will not give up all firearms or semi-auto firearms nor will I talk about ridiculous banning of some firearms like what they call 'assault weapons.' I am willing to talk about 'Universal Background Checks' but I want to know exactly what they mean by this.

    @Dunerunner Don't we have Background Checks now in Idaho? Isn't that what they are talking about? If so, I could purchase a gun today with a clean record and in 5 years turn into a mass murder. That background check is only good up to the point I walk out of the store - but - I suppose it might stop a few and that is something.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  20. two partial quotes. "the easiest way for something evil to happen is for good persons to do nothing", "when they came for the Jews I said nothing..... "
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