The Gun Debates

So, what have we got so far...?

Most don't want to give up anything because they believe it gets us no where. And, they're probably correct for this argument is not going to ever end until side is dead and gone.

I want to negotiate and give up Bump Stocks and possibly a minimum age requirement of 21-yr for purchase and possession in exchange for a Nationwide Constitutional Carry. But, let's be truthful...there is no debate and there is no negotiation. We will be expected to give and that's all - give. We will get nothing in return. Having said this, I still think it is wise to at least negotiate in good faith with them and ask for something in return because it shows willingness on our side even though we already know the outcome, to simply say, "F%$ off!" plays into their hand.

Anyway, I am writing my Senators and Rep tonight and tell them I think we should deal but it is a two-way street.

EDIT: No, ghrit, this will be a swindle. No doubt in my mind that is their intent... I have heard no one talking about a deal or even a swap.

 

You can't negotiate in good faith with opponents who have repeatedly demonstrated that they have no good faith! They are taking the gloves off this time, and it's way past the time for us to draw the line!

 

Oh it'll be a swindle for sure.
What if the system we have already sucks?
If the barrel of your rifle is 15.9 inches long .. you go to jail.
If your grandpas barn shotgun was sawn off to 12 inches and he chopped the stock as well .. you go to jail.
You take a tube of metal weld on some endcaps and thread the end of your barrel and make your gun a little quieter so as not to annoy the neighbors when you are eliminating the raccoons that are taking your chickens .. you go to jail?

Yep and the deck is stacked against the owners of guns.
We will all be criminals before too long.

 

That is what I am afraid of, that the sides are too far gone, too far apart to ever fix this issue. And it is an issue that needs to be addressed. Because right now with every incident, the demands become more extreme.

And it happened today. it was not violent but it was a clear message to promote the anti-gun talking points. Today a teacher in Dalton GA refused to let the kids in the class and ended up firing a gun. He shot out the window. The teacher is well known for his anti-gun stance. The incident terrified the kids and the kids hopped on social media to say arming teachers will not work. IMO that teacher fell on the sword for the anti-gun crowd.

Exactly. MADD (mothers against drunk driving) was very instrumental in getting tougher penalties for drunk driving. That is why in my opening post I mentioned watching the Moms because Moms are tired of kids getting shot in schools. I think they do not care what it takes,they just want it to stop.

Who is they? Many of the anti-gun crowd is just everyday folks that want kids to stop being slaughtered. I have talked to old timers who say they don't need a 30 round magazine. I live in a state that has banned 30 round mags & back ground checks for all purchases. Other states are very strict also. I think we need to define who they are and what groups, to what degree these people are anti-gun

 

Negotiating is correct. Currently this thread has members who all support 2A, negotiating and not coming to a solution. If the people that believe and support the right to bear arms cannot agree, I do not know how we can ever come to terms with the opposing side.

I agree. Murder is murder. But please note, when a school shooting happens it is the guns fault and the NRA but when a young colored man is killed but an officer of the law, it is police brutality or racial profiling or whatever the catch phrase is. Murder is murder but notice the difference in the public's reaction. I have not heard chants and screams for disarming the police.

 

They are the mindless Sheeple that follow the herd, repeat every thing the antis spew forth and spit in the face of every one that disagrees with them!
Need has nothing to do with ownership! YOU don't NEED a Dodge Viper, but you have the right to go out and buy one and wrap your self around a tree with it, YOU don't NEED a bigger T.V. But you have the right to go out and buy one any time you like! Need has nothing to do with any thing! It's a argueing point that has no bearing on any thing, just sounds good to force something! And Co, has the Mag ban, YUP, and we get around it with "Maintence Kits"

The capacity has zero to do with the effectiveness or the capabilities of any firearm, Period! I can load and shoot a 7 round 1911 faster, and with much more accuracy then a 15 round Glock, and, I can reload fast enough that you would hardly know I had done so! That logic is what has gotten us where we are thus far! Hell, some one trained up on speed loading revolvers is just as effective as a mag change in any semi auto pistol, and likely more skilled at shooting because he practiced more!

 

The big issue is the target is all wrong.

We don't blame the car in when it goes across lanes into on coming traffic (typically)
We don't blame the plane when it crashes into a sky scraper
We don't blame the truck when it plows into a market place
We don't blame Cutco for the steak knife that someone slit their wrist with.

We blame the individual or group of individuals

But, when it comes down to shootings in a school or a park or a concert.
How come we are blaming the gun? Worse yet, why are we blaming owners of similar guns hundreds and thousands of miles away that had their guns safely tucked away in their safes as accomplices. And basically that's why law abiding gun owners are pissed off.

Yep, guns are an easy target. They don't have a voice except through us. And as a responsible adult, I reject being blamed for something that I didn't do. Hey If I did it, well the consequences are mine alone to accept. But that is not the tactic being used.

So, being that I didn't do it. And you didn't do it. Why should we be punished?

At this rate we should just work for the government and have them give us an allowance of food, shelter, entertainment, healthcare because someone cheated on their taxes, or grew a patented seed, or redlined a minority family in order to rent one of their properties, or downloaded a pirated DVD, or billed for a procedure that was never performed. Yeah, that's not going to work for me.

 

"...shall not be infringed." Period. No debate, no discussion.

I look at what has changed in the past 40 years. My teachers were mostly male, veterans, and tough guys. I know they had guns in school. We worked on guns in shop class, had guns in hunter safety class, and most of us had guns in our cars. Pretty much the way it is now wherever I go... except at a school. Yet I haven't heard much about repealing The Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990. Remove the certainty that nobody will be there to stop a threat with force.

Don't deny the killers right to a speedy trial, but make it speedy, public and FINAL. The only pictures of these killers that make the papers should be posthumous, and they should know this.

 

You know, our watchdog has rabies.
At one time, media was our trusted companion. They would root out wrongdoing and corruption and expose it to all of us.
Now, they take the facts if a mass murderer, 10 years of threats, over 36 calls to the school, the police, the FBI, where no action was taken concerning these threats, and when he carries out the threats, the initial police response is to cower outside doing nothing! The media adds all this up and says it is the fault if the NRA and 80 million firearm owners in the US!

Collectively, are they
A. Stupid
B. Mentally incompetent or
C. Minions pushing an agenda?

I have to think the answer is C. If we love God, our country, the Constitution and Bill of rights, and the freedoms protected by those documents, and we have firearms, we are in their way.

They cannot gain their objective without disposing of us, and they can't dispose of us without disarming us first! History has shown us too many times that when a government disarms it's citizens, genocide often follows. Imagine the Jews trying to have discussions and negotiations while they were being dragged out of their homes, forced into cattle cars, and sent off to be exterminated, because they had no firearms. It's unfortunate, but Muslim, Democrats, and liberals are trying to destroy us, and we cannot negotiate with them.

As far as arming teachers goes, who can tell me the last time Israel has a mass murder at one of their schools? Their teachers are armed, and have some affection for their students.

 

At one time it was A and B but now C.
Some call them useful idiots.

 

thinkin what needs to be looked at is... the seeming agenda here...

I am of the opinion those cryin out the most have been and are having their strings pulled...

difficult to pin down who... I watched a replay... long as I could cause it makes me very upset...

of the Waco incident on Amazon I think it was...

but one person stood out big time... Schumer...<speelin >

he seemed to fight tooth and nail against EVERYTHING put forward and seemed to say whatever he thought would work...

while he is not alone I try to follow the money and who is paying for what...

the biggest error I think we made was in not payin closer attention to what was being taught in our schools!!!!

recall my sons coming home and telling me one of their teachers told them the 2nd Amendment was bad...

cause it allowed for civil war... oh really? hmmm... perhaps that is what they intended...

I told em think back... after all just what did the founders have to do to create this nation...

 

saw this on another forum I frequent and had to bring it here... kinda points something out regarding our MSM...

FACTS ABOUT THE AR-15 according to the media:


* The inventor of the AR-15 was Satan, though his patent has since expired.


* Scientists have confirmed the deadly effects of an AR-15 by giving it to a [bleep] who then murdered them.


* Scientists agree that each year the AR-15 will grow more deadly until it kills everyone in the entire world.


* Some believe that Hitler was in fact an AR-15 in a rubber mask.


* In the Garden of Eden, God gave Adam and Eve access to every firearm out there except for the AR-15 which he told them not to touch because it was too evil. But then the NRA, in the guise of a serpent, told Eve that the AR-15 is really fun to shoot. So then Eve took the AR-15 and started shooting all the animals in the garden.


* The part that makes the AR-15 so extra deadly is the handle on top. The AR-15 would be used in less murders if it were more inconvenient to carry.


* It was an AR-15 that told Miley Cyrus to dance like that.


* Bullets that are normally harmless will kill instantly when fired out of the AR-15.


* The reason AR-15s have that prominent handle on them is because the most requested feature for an assault rifle was to be able to carry it like a Hello Kitty lunch box.


* If you find yourself surrounded by AR-15, know that they will fire automatically if they sense fear.


* The AR-15 is easily concealable and can fit inside a matchbox.


* The AR-15 is the leading cause of global warming from how its bullets shoot holes in the ozone.


* A very small percentage of gun deaths are attributed to the AR-15 because it is very good at disguising itself as other guns to frame them.


* What are the differences between an M16 and an AR-15? Scientists agree that it is something.


* The AR-15 can be rendered harmless by giving it only a 10 round magazine as people always miss with the first ten rounds and an AR-15 takes an hour and a half to reload.


* The AR-15 can shoot through schools.


* In a battle between Aquaman and an AR-15, Aquaman would break down and buy it so people might think he’s more manly.


* There were no shooting deaths until the invention of an AR-15. No one even considered using a gun to shoot another human being until someone saw an AR-15 and said, I bet I could use this to kill people.


* There was an assault musket similar to the AR-15 used by the world’s most evil pirates, but it was pronounced Arrr-15.


* The Assault Weapon ban was needed because it is well known that an AR-15 with both a pistol grip and a flash suppressor would be unstoppable by any modern military.


* In Europe there is no such thing as an AR-15 and thus also no such thing as murders. Instead of being violent, people there just drink wine and smoke cigarettes all day.


* If the AR-15 were banned, it’s believed all gun deaths would end because even gun murders that didn’t use the AR-15 were inspired by the evil sight of that gun.


* If you are shot by an AR-15, you become one.


* An AR15 sank the Titanic . . . . with one shot.


* During a full moon the AR15 grows a second clip and becomes 600% more deadly.


* The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes..


(By Liam W via Dysfunctional Veterans)

 

I saw a reporters post that AR-15 meant Automatic Rifle-15 shots per trigger pull.

I guess I see this differently than most. First, nothing will convince me that there is not a bigger force at work behind these shootings. Secondly, why would we entrust the very system that has failed so dramatically in the past to regulate our ownership of any firearm?
Our parents made some of us this way. Most of them suffered through hard times and worked hard to assure their kids had an easier life. The end result was part of an entire generation became clueless about what it was to defeat oppression. They have no idea about defending someone else's rights. They are a group raised to be self centered with no life experience outside of their comfort zones. Those in this particular sect of our society who do own guns can be convinced to give them up for the greater good by social media, peer pressure, and false flag events. The snowball then builds. These mass shootings are spaced out enough to be, in my eyes, probing attacks. We keep having an attack here and there, eventually we will find the magic bullet to justify ending gun ownership.

Do these people not see that the very thing they are attacking is what assures their right to do so?

Lastly, they should be damn glad that us gun owners are not the evil bastards they portray us to be. If we were, the debate would have ended long ago and there would be no one to attack us.

 

I Bought My First Gun Because Of The CNN Town Hall

This kind of sums it up for me.

 

Good question. Why has no one talked about repealing the Gun-Free School zone act? I think most teachers would not carry but I think the threat of not knowing would make some of these sick kids think twice. Or maybe not.

Sadly I laughed at that but you do wonder how many people believed that reporter.

 

What part of any law does a criminal abide ?
What part of a law does a congressman behave ?
Trusting a self serving government to create laws no one but the law abiding are bound to, is lopsidedly WRONG .
They make exception for them selves and abuse their position, worse than the criminals on the streets.
Fact, lawyers don't care about right and wrong ,they abuse the laws to fit their own agenda.
Till those making laws start abiding by them ALL, then I will respect them .
People that approve of disarming good people , support the criminal , on the street and in government .