The Gun Debates

Wow! Great discussion! Late to this party and every point I would make has already been made.

Here is what I would "trade":

1. Purchases of semiautomatic firearms and pistols restricted to 21 and older unless the person is 18 or older and has taken a safety course that consists of:

1. Classroom training (including hands on orientation)
2. Written exam so we know they paid attention
3. Practical exam at a range including proper safety practices and live fire

2.Bump stocks are a stupid fad much like some people want pit bulls or dobermans for the wrong reasons (they are wonderful breeds when raised and trained properly). Their popularity is due largely to media hype. Personally if I need to defend myself in a rifle battle I prefer you have a bump stock so you will run out of ammo quickly and I can easily pick you off when you have to swap mags, not to mention that you probably don't have much chance of hitting me after you fire the first round. That said I'd trade them for the compromises I want below.​

Here is what I want back:

1. A parent may purchase any weapon for their child even if that child is under 21 and has not taken the above mentioned safety course.
   1. The parent, however, is responsible for the actions of a child under 18 years of age.
   2. A child may possess any weapon provided by a parent.
2. CPL reciprocity in all 50 states
3. CPL holders exempt from "gun free zones" or the elimination of the target rich undefended areas altogether.
   
4. Two part background check process separating the person from the firearm:
   1. First part is that the firearm serial number is checked to make sure it isn't stolen or otherwise flagged by LE. New manufacture is exempt.
   2. Once the firearm has been cleared a SEPARATE BGC is made on the PERSON only
      1. If the person passes then this is in effect for 30 days.
      2. If the person fails they must be informed fully the reason why they were denied and given recourse
5. Elimination of noise cancellation devices from the NFA. These were only in the NFA to stop poaching because the NFA was implemented during the Great Depression.
6. Mandatory tough prison sentences for violent crime committed with ANY weapon and doubled for use of firearms. Constitutes a mandatory death sentence for violent crimes committed by organized crime including gang members.
   
7. Voluntary armed teachers and administrators who are willing and trained (annual re-certification and free range time and training) to defend the students and themselves from attackers in all 50 states. This is why the Palestinians no longer target Israeli schools.
8. Proper medical care for that percentage of the population that will have mental issues including but not limited to those with violent tendencies. We can't rely on "wonder drugs" that always seem to have unintended consequences and many of these people wind up on the streets.
9. EDIT: almost forgot - Any member of the US military that has been deployed to a hostile war zone has reached their majority even if under 21 and gets all associated rights including the purchase of any weapon and alcohol.

​

 

There can be no compromise. They don't understand the word. They demand and expect everybody else to capitulate to those demands. They demand that cake bakers cannot discriminate against a protected class as they define it. And yet, they are all for demanding that it's OK that any company sponsoring their agenda is absolutely free to discriminate against the whole of our society; that being, each and every one of us to keep and bear arms, a sentiment stated quite clearly in the founding documents of this nation. They already subverted the 2nd when they passed the NFA claptrap. They subverted it further when they made 21 the age requirement to purchase a handgun. When is my compromise enough to meet their demands? I'd actually consider the 21 age limit on all gun purchases if, as others already mentioned, they really wanted to compromise by abandoning the NFA bs.

You cannot compromise with zealots. Will they claim our side to be equally zealous? Well sure, but which side has natural law on its side and which is clamoring to build the next holocaust?

 

There was a young feller trying to buy a ar15 this morning at the gun store this morning. He was trying to get one before he laws changed. He was not too happy that everything is changing. The store owner said that he had sold three and had five more coming in this morning. He had no ammo in stock,he’s only selling ammo by the thousand,getting new shipments in daily. I went with the Ruger mini 14 and the mini30,same firepower but not black.

 

Gun control is population control.

One need only look at the history of the world.

 

Somewhere I read this week that "They" will not be able to disarm us without the LEO's and military behind their agenda. I have been reading all week that people are fearing of losing their semi-auto guns. For a while I believed and worried that this could happen but I look back and wonder if I was just getting swept in with the hysteria. Looking back, people were sure Obama was going to take our guns but he didn't. After thinking about things, I do not believe the government will ever get the full backing of the military and law enforcement for a nationwide gun grab. There are too many guns out there and many cannot be traced. Plus with internet, word spreads immediately so resistance would be ready.

 

It's been done elsewhere and with the active programming being done in schools we are only one generation away from the military and LEO's from backing the government in opposition to the people. The PR campaign by the left with MSM and teachers cheerleading is working and eventually gun owners will face a great deal of pressure and localities will enact their own controls as well. I'm already seeing this locally in far left Nutland, where I would face violence in even admitting I'm a conservative as well as being shunned by many life long friends. Conservatives and gun owners are being painted as the enemy and eventually there will be action against us.

 

I will admit Im on the fence as to making it 21 years of age to buy a hand gun or high cap. semi automatic rifle. I also dont think 18 years olds should have to go to war or be able to vote. They cant drink so maybe we make it 21 to be an adult? Im still pondering this. But make no mistake. The left is coming for the guns. Eventually they will have enough votes to rewrite the second amendment . The U.S. will die on that day.

 

18 is your minority age and 21 is your majority age. The three years between your minority and majority is traditionally the final transition from child to adult with partial rights at 18 and full rights and responsibility at 21. I'm OK with 21 for any pistol, hand gun,or semi automatic regardless of capacity unless the person has achieved their minority AND has completed a training class with classroom (including test) and practical (including shooting) components. Also ANYONE in the service who has been deployed to a hostile zone automatically reaches their majority in all aspects regardless of age.

As I stated in another thread:

Here is what I would "trade":

1. Purchases of semiautomatic firearms and pistols restricted to 21 and older unless the person is 18 or older and has taken a safety course that consists of:

1. Classroom training (including hands on orientation)
2. Written exam so we know they paid attention
3. Practical exam at a range including proper safety practices and live fire

2.Bump stocks are a stupid fad much like some people want pit bulls or dobermans for the wrong reasons (they are wonderful breeds when raised and trained properly). Their popularity is due largely to media hype. Personally if I need to defend myself in a rifle battle I prefer you have a bump stock so you will run out of ammo quickly and I can easily pick you off when you have to swap mags, not to mention that you probably don't have much chance of hitting me after you fire the first round. That said I'd trade them for the compromises I want below.

Here is what I want back:

1. A parent may purchase any weapon for their child even if that child is under 21 and has not taken the above mentioned safety course.
   1. The parent, however, is responsible for the actions of a child under 18 years of age.
   2. A child may possess any weapon provided by a parent.
2. CPL reciprocity in all 50 states
3. CPL holders exempt from "gun free zones" or the elimination of the target rich undefended areas altogether.
   
4. Two part background check process separating the person from the firearm:
   1. First part is that the firearm serial number is checked to make sure it isn't stolen or otherwise flagged by LE. New manufacture is exempt.
   2. Once the firearm has been cleared a SEPARATE BGC is made on the PERSON only
      1. If the person passes then this is in effect for 30 days.
      2. If the person fails they must be informed fully the reason why they were denied and given recourse
5. Elimination of noise cancellation devices from the NFA. These were only in the NFA to stop poaching because the NFA was implemented during the Great Depression.
6. Mandatory tough prison sentences for violent crime committed with ANY weapon and doubled for use of firearms. Constitutes a mandatory death sentence for violent crimes committed by organized crime including gang members.
   
7. Voluntary armed teachers and administrators who are willing and trained (annual re-certification and free range time and training) to defend the students and themselves from attackers in all 50 states. This is why the Palestinians no longer target Israeli schools.
8. Proper medical care for that percentage of the population that will have mental issues including but not limited to those with violent tendencies. We can't rely on "wonder drugs" that always seem to have unintended consequences and many of these people wind up on the streets.
9. EDIT: almost forgot - Any member of the US military that has been deployed to a hostile war zone has reached their majority even if under 21 and gets all associated rights including the purchase of any weapon and alcohol.

 

Yes to all.

 

Note that a student was recently temporarily expelled and investigated for joking in class that a square root symbol looked sort of like a pistol. The mass murdering coward in Florida in comparison wasn't stopped even though there were dozens of police contacts, several tips, etc.. Looks like the masses are being conditioned while the actual killers aren't discouraged a single bit. Why might this be?

 

You can't stop crazy. It has always been around and will never become extinct. They try and make the mental go away by drugging them but that seems to make things worse.

For every action (shooting), there is a reaction (anti-gun crowd screaming) and a reaction to the reaction (the 2A crowd panicking). Happens every time. They push and gun owners say no yet think that someone is going o take their guns next week. I cannot recall but I question if there has been anything different after any of the shootings on a Federal level? After Sandy Hook some states took matters into their own hands but have the Feds ever infringed after one of these shooting?

 

THERE IS ONE BIG PROBLEM WITH MOVING THE AGE TO 21. The words of the second amendment state that the Militia (the people) The Militia is defined in U.S Code as all able bodied men ages 17 TO 45 That would be a bit tough to deny an 18 year old the right to bear arms when he is legally the militia.

 

Good point and that is also in many state Constitutions as well - men of a certain age being members of a Militia answering to the Governor whether they know it or not.

 

Any trade that removes the 1986 ban on new full auto should be considered.
Trade bump stocks for that.

That way you have to be full auto or semi auto, no in between no gray areas.
Anything that appears grey is a machine gun, register it pay 200.
Why make it complicated?
Oh I forgot that's the only thing the government is good at.

 

Waco,never forget.