The Militia culture and it's impact on society

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Son0fLib3rty, Jan 28, 2016.

  1. Son0fLib3rty

    Son0fLib3rty Monkey

    I've recently been immersed in the militia culture. I have looked at it from a veteran and law enforcement standpoint. It's something I find myself conflicted on.
    One side of the coin is that I love seeing a resurgence of the American warrior spirit that carried us through the revolution. A spirit that is needed now more than ever.
    The other side of the coin is the common naivety and sometimes (the most dangerous) blatant stupidity.

    There are many of these groups who don't understand what it is exactly they're choosing to shoulder. The leadership necessary to the task they ask others to join them in. The training put themselves through that honestly leaves professionals scratching their heads.

    They tack on these military ranks and titles never fully understanding the responsibilities that comes with those positions. They watch a video on youtube made by some tacticool GoPro operator and think that will carry them through a combat environment against China (as example) or any other SHTF scenario.

    Many in this culture don't seem to play well with others and tend to have gigantic egos roughly the size of jupiter. They act more like gangs for middle aged men. Not saying this is all of them, but it is a trend that holds some consistency.

    Those are my thoughts. Anyone have additions for other lines of thinking I may have missed?
  2. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    I have always looked at these groups as Strong Leader, Big Ego, Prophetic type Outfits.... Since I usually am NOT the joining type, and have NO .MIL experience, there just isn't much allure to draw Me in.. However, many a Group has approuched me, over the years, for my Comms, Firearms, and Energetic Materials, experience, and I found that mostly, the Leader just " Turns my interest, OFF" .... Kind of like, back in the day, (during my Hippy Phase) when I was approuched by the "Weather Underground" to teach them some of my SkillSets, during a Party.. I left that Party, quickly, and distanced myself, from the Inviters, and never looked back... They blew themselves up, in a NYC Brownstone, a few months later... This what happens when NonTecnical Folks mess around with Chemistry, beyond their Knowledge Base, and Skill Level.....
    HK_User, AD1, Altoidfishfins and 2 others like this.
  3. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    I think that if you were to join a militia group....discernment of the facts at hand regarding their leadership, objectives, plans and so on are critical. There are many serious, well structured groups out there..... you just have to have your eyes and ears open to what is happening and what is being said......IMO
  4. Son0fLib3rty

    Son0fLib3rty Monkey

    I've run across groups who are very on point. I'm honestly not trying to rag on them. This is just what I've encountered personally so far.
  5. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I was a member of the West Michigan Volunteers which is one of around 60 units of Michigan Militia spread around the state. I trained with ex Air force para rescue, Marines, Navy and an Army staff sergeant who served in Iraq. Several special forces men who went through Camp Mackal and ran the nasty Nick. These guys moved around to the different units training as needed. I heard all the stories of how anti government they were supposed to be and other B.S. Ill tell you all something, we said the pledge to our flag every meeting. A copy and understanding of the Constitution was MANDATORY. I swore the same oath any Military man or LEO took. Our team leader was a Air force para rescue veteran who was deployed in Iraq in the first Gulf War. They all said their oath had no expiration date. I never met one Idiot in the bunch and met several hundred of them. At first I was very awed by what they knew and how they trained because I didnt know anything. I had never served in combat. They didnt seem to mind , they taught me how to move, how to recognize commands etc. I became second in command in three years rising to Rifleman level three. I out shot most of the younger guys and found that my strength was teaching them woodsman skills. You see our military guyswere trained to fight in the desert. I was a hunter. They wanted to carry huge packs and I preferred to move lighter. Im not saying I was better because I wasn't. I just taught them young boys a few things about the woods. By the time I left after almost 7 years I was field support rifleman level 3 . I was in charge of lots of new guys teaching them how to shoot accurately. About 2/3 of the units are ex military and the others were the ones who needed most of the work. Everyone had to be able to shoot at least level one which was 8 of ten rounds in a Paper plate at 100 yards. You had to use only expedient things like your back pack as a rest. The main fear they expressed is what is going on right now. THEY KNEW in 2008 that Radical Islam was coming here and we were already monitoring two Jihad training camps in Michigan. We sent info to the FBI on them . W e also helped them to catch members of a religious cult (Huttaree)calling themselves a militia in southern Michigan. They applied to the leadership for unit status and were denied access to camp Stasa because of radical religious practices. Once Frank Stasa died (ww2 veteran) the camp was handed down to his children who were not sympathetic to the movement and the camp closed. Each unit now had to find new places to train and that caused the numbers to drop. Right now they are over 5000 strong and my old unit has over 160 members. More now than when I was in. We only had 31 when I was in. My old team leader has asked me to come back and help out with field support and firearms safety instructor. I declined as my feet are so bad. I suffer from type II diabetes and have neropathy . Michigan Militia has a sophisticated intelligence network and can get information that scared the crap out me. They have good intel on lots of things you would never Imagine. The Bottom line is that they feel they are the last line of defense. Nothing more nothing less. I never heard one plan to bomb anyone or harm any government people. Yea we all called them names and stuff but no more then we do here at the monkey. To me the Word Militia carries Honor, stands for Liberty and justice. I have been there trained with them and would stand beside any of our Michigan boys any time.
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Wish I could have met up with that kind of Outfit.... Might have given me a different outlook... Thanks for that @Kingfish....
    chelloveck likes this.
  7. Son0fLib3rty

    Son0fLib3rty Monkey

    I know that many of them are very patriotic. Patriotism is a love of country, not government. As I have said. This is just my personal experience so far. It's why I made this thread. to gain perspective from others experiences.I like getting the bigger picture.
  8. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    I have to admit to being curious, myself. No experience to talk of. Just, curious.
  9. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Like any social grouping of humans with similar or overlapping interests, you will find a spectrum of capabilities, competencies, philosophies, and ethical principles....some may be worth supporting...the greater proportion, are probably worth keeping at a safe distance from. The more flag waving I see and patriotic rhetoric I hear, the less inclined I am to be sucked into joining some rag tag bunch of yahoos because they happen to be singing the songs I like to hear.

    Via: Comic And Terrifying In Equal Measure: What We Learned From The Reclaim Australia Rallies - New Matilda

    Reclaim Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  10. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Rawles blog has a link to the unedited helicopter or drone footage of the capture and shooting of the Refuge people. Not dash cam etc and after weeks, the actual shooting scene is perhaps 15 seconds long. He was very confused and at one point had his hands up, lowered them and was shot. Don't know if he was a threat or not, but with the tension and police training, the outcome was clear and the courts will give the officers in this a justified as it may well be they thought he was a threat.
  11. chimo

    chimo the few, the proud, the jarhead monkey crowd

    I tend to avoid private militias. In New Mexico we had a constitutional state militia (New Mexico State Guard) that fell under the Department of Military Affairs along with the national guard and the air guard, but unlike the guard we were under the command of the governor, not subject to federalization. We worked together with local, county, state law enforcement as well as the national/air guard. We were what a militia is supposed to be...part of the community designed to assist in state defense, emergency planning & preparedness and emergency response.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
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  12. Altoidfishfins

    Altoidfishfins Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Interesting perspectives.

    Don't know what Ammon Bundy's group hoped to gain by occupying a wildlife preserve. Looks like all they succeeded in doing was getting one of their members killed, another injured, and yet another 7 or 8 arrested. That outcome was almost predictable, especially given the realities of who controls the federal government at this point.

    Worse, their actions also pretty much discredited their cause, which is a worthy one. Seems that it doesn't matter how righteous it is, if your tactics suck both you and your cause are going down in flames.

    Kingfisher's Michigan militia seems to be pretty much spot on. But all they need is one idiot to make them look like a bunch of crazed hillbillies, fodder for the leftist-controlled media. These guys walk a real tight rope and I imagine they have to be pretty particular about who they let into their group.
    chelloveck likes this.
  13. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Minuteman would be a good one to chime on this topic. I have seen the rise and fall of some seriously patriotic and loyal Americans defeated by every underhanded government rouse you can imagine. False-flags, implanted informants, miss-information, it just keeps getting painted with a tar brush. My last affiliation had to duck so far underground after a series of raids and IRS attacks, that the point of balance was totally lost and all that remained were a bunch of bitter pissed-off even more angry at the apathy that has swept our nation.
  14. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    This is the main web site . There are over 50 units alone in the Wolverine corps. which only has one link and those guys don't post much of anything at all. They are just ;;; There. The wolverine corp is the oldest group which has been around since ww2. Formed around Frank Stasa .

    Frank Stasa formed the first Serious Michigan Militia Wolverine corps. Camp Stasa was a 40 acre Training camp owned by Stasa.

    Our guys police their ranks pretty well . Tim McVeigh's buddies the Nichols bros prior to the Oklahoma bombing were denied membership because they wanted to attack federals.. The Huttaree even though aquitted were denied for several reasons , poor fire arms safety on the range and radical religious beliefs. Infiltrating the Michigan Militia corps is a waste of tax payer dollars. Michigan units help in search and rescue ops and Amber alerts. We also provide intel on real terrorists like the two training camps of Muslim extremists in Michigan.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2016
  15. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I plan to Sea. Just waiting for access to a laptop. I hate typing on this damn phone.
  16. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    So do I, my dainty fingers and thumbs seem to spread across half the keypad....even my auto correct function has given up in despair....
    Altoidfishfins likes this.
  17. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Months back I was surfing around on militias and the Missouri militia was interesting. I did not do real deep search on other states but it seemed like Missouri had stronger codified law on militias.

    MISSOURI MILITIA - State Defense Force for MO Citizens

    it's codified into law and part of both the State and the Federal Constitutions. Missouri revised Statutes Chapter 41 41.050. The militia of the state shall include all able-bodied citizens and all other able-bodied residents, 41.070 (3) The unorganized militia shall consist of all persons liable to serve in the militia but not commissioned or enlisted in the organized militia.

    Organized and unorganized militia.

    41.070. 1. The militia of the state is divided into two classes, the organized militia and the unorganized militia.

    2. The organized militia shall consist of the following:

    (1) Such elements of the land and air forces of the National Guard of the United States as are allocated to the state by the President or the Secretary of Army or Air, and accepted by the state, hereinafter to be known as the National Guard and the Air National Guard;

    (2) Such elements of the reserve naval forces of the United States as are allocated to the state by the President or the Secretary of the Navy, and accepted by the state, hereinafter called the naval militia; and the

    (3) Missouri reserve military force, when organized.

    3. The unorganized militia shall consist of all persons liable to serve in the militia but not commissioned or enlisted in the organized militia.

    (L. 1951 p. 654 § 6)
    Section: 041.0070 Organized and unorganized militia. RSMO 41.070

    ADDED: As things are going I would expect more militias being organized.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
    Yard Dart likes this.
  18. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    There are many new members who may not be familiar with my background so a little backstory. My avatar of the minuteman is not just a picture I found cool. It represented who I was when we started this site. I was deeply involved in the patriot/militia movement in the late 80's and into the 00's. I was a reluctant leader, I never really wanted the job but my natural tendencies to take charge came through and I got thrust into the position. I was the leader of our state organization and coordinated and worked with other leaders on a national level. I have known, met, talked to and or worked with many of the leaders of the patriot movement. Many names you would recognise today, a great many more you never heard of. I have known Alex Jones for over 25 years. I have been on his show several times. Back in the pre internet, Single Side Band, shortwave radio days. Back when he was a true patriot, before he became a Paytriot.
    The movement back then was really accomplishing things. We were getting the word out. Our original mission was more one of spreading information than anything else. We established pirate FM radio stations along interstate highways around the country. We established communication networks. We held preparedness expo's that drew thousands. We were working with local law enforcement to protect our communities, to augment our police forces when they needed search and rescue or extra security.
    We worked with politicians to enact laws protecting our communities, our counties, states, and country.
    But we were too successful. We got to be such a force that the PTB became nervous. Then came Ruby Ridge, and Waco. The militia movement was more an auxiliary of the patriot movement up until then. But it expanded rapidly after.
    In Oklahoma we had gotten the legislature to pass a measure, House Bill 1182, IIRC, that stated that no actions would be taken in the state without approval of state authorities. It specifically stated that no world body, such as UN would be allowed to operate within the state. It was basically a cease and desist order to the NWO for that state. It was signed by, again IIRC, 23 state senators and representatives. Less than a year later, just four blocks from where that landmark legislation was passed, a federal building was blown up. The blast actually broke out windows in the senate offices of several of the signers of that legislation. The very first action taken when the State senate was next convened was to repeal the anti-NWO law.
    The government declared war on the militias and the patriot movement. They came after us with the full force of the federal govt.
    The jackboots were given full freedom to take us out.
    Many leaders around the country were killed or more often arrested on bogus trumped up charges. Mark Koernke, Charlie Puckett, Bob Anderson, among dozens of others spent years in federal prison. Some are still there today.
    And where were the rank and file? The ones who had attended our meetings, trained with us, swore oaths to defend each other? They disappeared like a morning mist. Faded away, or slunk away in the night. I saw members burn their uniforms, burn their manuals and insignias. I saw them turn in their fellow members to escape prison terms for trumped up charges. I saw the "from my cold dead hands" and the "death to the NWO" types be the first to run and hide. When it came time to put up or shut up, to stand tall, to take a stand, they ran.
    So I don't have much faith in the vaunted 3%, or the newbie militias that rally around their keyboards and talk about freedom and taking a stand. When push comes to shove, when the day comes that all the talk suddenly turns real. When a man can go to jail, lose his freedom or even his life, the majority will balk. The majority will tuck tail and slink away. Words are cheap, actions are hard. Especially when those actions have potential dire consequences.
    I think that is why I am so passionate about this Bundy situation. Those guys, right or wrong, for whatever reasons they had, they took a stand. They walked the walk . I have to respect that. They stood while others lay abed and those abed should hold their manhood cheap.
    I have posted something similar to this on militia websites and I close with the challenge to the new generation to prove me wrong. I am glad to see the renewed interest in the movement but I see just a bunch of Rambo's and wannabe's. I've been there, done that. Albert Einstein is quoted as saying "The definition of insane is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" or something to that effect. I don't expect anything different.
    My signature line has a quote from George Washington that I really feel is apropos "you took the good things for granted....there is nothing for nothing any longer".
    We really had a chance to do something in the 90's. We were doing things. But when the govt brought the boot heel of tyranny down on us it all ended. And what did we see soon after? The Patriot Act, NSA data mining, spying on citizens, the federal thugs were free to run roughshod over the people. And they still are today. Now it is much harder to make any changes, much harder to restore freedom, to reverse the course, there is nothing for nothing any longer.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  19. stg58

    stg58 Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Well stated and possibly not as well stated by myself privatively.

    I am glad to see the renewed interest in the movement but I see just a bunch of Rambo's and wannabe's.
  20. Kingfish

    Kingfish Self Reliant

    I remember Mark Kornke , had the radio show. Also known as Mark from Michigan .Minuteman, Did you know Norm Olson? He was before my time. I was a member from 2006 to 2012. My old team leader got ousted by his new second then regained the WMVM and is again recruiting but it is like you say . They don't do much any more except train and keep a low profile in public. Long gone are the public musters and such. Here is an article on what happened to us even though we had cleared the use of the land with the Forestry service. The Unit still trains there ha ha ha . And John Jurich is a friend of mine (The D.N.R. officer who came out). They had sherrif, Federal BLM and D.N.R. all TO make sure we knew they knew.

    Militia training in Manistee National Forest there to 'help our citizens'
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
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