The s*** has truly hit the fan, what do you carry.

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by E.L., Jan 20, 2006.


  1. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    To keep from hijacking another thread:

    In a true SHTF situation, you for whatever reason cannot bug in, so you have to bugout. What is the one rifle or shotgun and one pistol you are going to take? And why?
     
  2. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Well since I wont worry about hyjacking the thread here I'll give the longer anwser here.
    First off its unlikely I would be leaving home much less on foot unless it was a pretty localized situation since theres no place for me to go thats as well set up to ride things out much less enouph better to justify trying to travel in those conditions. That said, if I was headed out it would be somewhat situational specific. If this was some kind of unrest or whatever where the area was crawling with millitary and LEOs and such then would most likely be long arms that could be under a coat or broke down to fit in a pack and sidearms so as to avoid being a target from both sides while still haveing sidearms for a certian leavel of defence.
    If things had fully broken down such that the LEOs and such were of no concern and only need to worry about MZBs then since there are 3 of us in the house Tina being the worst shot would be given the pump shotgun to take care of close to mid range work with maximum stopping power, the boy being a fair shot would be given the AK to put lead in the air and do what he could to moderate long range, and I would carry my bolt gun for any long range or precision work with a sidearm for quick or close situations and as a stop gap. If my load out was such that it was less of a problem for the weight or if speed was not the top concern (so the weight didnt matter as much) then I would also strap the SKS to my pack with several stripper clips so I could bring it into action if it was a better option and the situation allowed and could also use the same ammo with the AK.
    There are a few other options I might use to upgrade it if I had them but given what I have to choose from that would be the way it would likely go.
     
  3. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Troy Industries M14 SOPMOD
    small and compact, takes common mags and shoots .308.
    plus I have a Suppressor in the works for it as well!

    but,
    If I were to be walking with a group of AR15 shooters, I'd grab one for compatibility.

    either way, Rifle over Handgun or Shotgun for me
     
  4. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    [drooling] I would like that option also. Since I don't have that, after much thought I would have to carry the AR. Why? Ammo re-supply for one, two I could mount my Leupold on the flat top if need be for longer range shooting, fire rate, 30 rd. mags., and I could carry more 5.56 than anything else. Now once I get my re-worked G3 back, things might be different. Now if I know it is going to be CQB work only, and re-supply is not a concern, it would be my AK. With any variables at all though, for now I would have to say AR.
     
  5. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    E.L.
    Where I live in the hills and mountains, I don't get to see much more than a 300 yard shot.
    My first reaction would be to take an AR on a walkabout or patrol. I know the weapon well and have much in the way of spares for it. More ammo and mags too.

    I'm not convinced that the 5.56 is inferior for close range purposes out of a 16" bbl. In 'most' case, I'd take the AR. Just ordered the can for the SOPMOD so I thought I'd throw that out there...
     
  6. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    At this stage, I go with an AR and a spare extractor. For future thinking, I plan to get something that will handle 308 in a more or less handy size. I am pretty recoil insensitive, so something on the order of a SOPMOD without a whole bunch of stuff (meaning weight) hanging off it would make some sense. Again, it is somewhat dependent on resup; if the tribe is all doing AR that's what I do. Tribe dealing in 308, that's what I do, if I have it. Ditto 7.62X39.

    If alone, 308 makes a bit more sense, since I'll be in stealth mode, and won't engage without severe provocation, and volume of fire will be far less critical than the ability to discourage from long range.
     
  7. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Ok, hope this isnt to much of a hyjack but I know keep hearing folks talk about spare parts for the ARs and also am always seeing repair parts kits for them. If they need all these spare parts it kind of implies to me they have a tendancey to break down on you. So the question is are these spare parts needed as in the thing is actualy likely to need them sooner or later or are they just to have around, and if there is any real tendancy to need spare parts so you can fix them then why in the world would anyone want to depend on one in any SHTF situation unless it was just a cool guy factor?

    Figured would comment on this part too. Just to toss out something to think about. While there are some benifits to haveing the same system for the whole tribe as far as shareing mags and ammo, I think most overlook the benifits of diversified systems for the members of a party. Mainly that if the whole tribe is shooting one cal then you HAVE to get THAT cal of ammo but if everyone is shooting different common cals then any time you come across a chance to get ammo there is most likely someone in the group who can use it. Then there is also the factor of every gun/cal/system has its own advantages and disadvantages, so if say you have some of the group shooting guns that spray and pray, some shooting things that are more for precission and so on then you can cover all the bases instead of the whole greoup haveing the same weaknesses and strengths, so they can complement each other. Just another angle to look at on it.
     
  8. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    The two biggest weaknesses of the M4 can be overcome easily for your purposes. The M855 ammo does not yaw and break in half like the M193 spec stuff, but is relying on your bullet to break in half necessarily a good thing. The other weakness is training, we are trained to shoot center of mass, not keep the bullet up in the vitals. A hit at 50 to 100 meters will be lower than the aiming point, in the intestines, where any hunter can tell you, it takes a deer days to die shot there. Well aimed shots will give the bullet more chance to do more damage.

    Since I did not sign the Geneva Convention, I am not bound by the non-expanding bullet rules. Try some of the steel case HP and SP out there on the market, and if you don't like them, get or reload some commercial soft points. Carry one in the chamber, in case you get a shot at a deer or other eating animal, and fill the rest of the mag with the M855, if that's what you have. If you are using suppressive fire as a tactic, to disengage or whatever, it doesn't matter one iota at that point which round you are shooting, only that it feeds and ejects.

    The reports on the 5.56 out of the early days of Vietnam were with the M193, and that is what I like to shoot. It still shoots OK out of the 1-7" twist barrels, in an M16A2, it shoots low and left of the M855 impact point. I have and have shot a lot of the Barnaul 62 grain soft point, and some of the Silver Bear 62 grain HP.
     
  9. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member


    In my 100,000 rounds + 5.56/.223 fired through multiple AR15s, I have had 1 problem and it was with the bolt or extractor... never figured it out, just tossed another bolt in and kep going.

    I think that the reason the M16/AR15 owners started carring 'spares' is because the part that you might carry are all rather small, easy to replace in the field and can fit within the pistol grip or in the back of the A2 buttstock. More of a because you can rather than you had better.

    I like to have a spare bolt on the rifle.
    The design flaw in this rifle is that the gas comes right back into the bolt and carrier. Other weapons use gas to throw a rod back to the bolt. The result is an often carbon fouled bolt. It's sometimes easier to drop another bolt in and clean out the dirty one when you get home.
     
  10. ghostrider

    ghostrider Resident Poltergeist Founding Member

    The M16 extractors had a polymer insert to keep the extractor from riding up over the rim of a case in a very dirty chamber. A couple of extra springs would probably suffice, unless you find a field spares kit with all the parts in it. As for the service life, I've seen M16s that had shot many 10s of thousands of rounds, and several had headspace problems. If you get 10,000 rounds out of an AK, it's probably time to replace the gas system.
     
  11. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Ok. I havent had, shot or really even been around the ARs/M16s so didnt know, I just kept noticeing lots of folks mentioning keeping spare parts on hand for them and any time I see accessories for them there is also a ton of spare parts kits so had kind of gotten the impression it was a matter of that you better have spare parts because they break, fly out and get lost or whatever and I just know if that were the case and they had that much tendancy to break down then would make no sence to me as a gun to rely on. So figured was as good a time and place as any to find out the story on it.
     
  12. sniper-66

    sniper-66 Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I'll stick with my light saber, not as clumsy as a blaster. [elim]
     
  13. Galactus

    Galactus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    Far more civilized also.
     
  14. Cleaner

    Cleaner Monkey+++

    I also agree with the mission specfic weapon. My bushmaster 16" would be my patrol/assault element weapon. The FAL would be for perimeter defense. The 5.56 out of a 16" barrel is more than adequate out to 200 meters, which is where most combat takes place anyway. +1 on the M193 stuff. The .308 is better for obvious longer ranges, 300-600 meters. Or taking out vehicles. :D
     
  15. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    My Fal works great Short and long
     
  16. meyah

    meyah Monkey+++

    You need 40 lbs of other survival gear.

    So you are not going to carry two rifles, adequate ammo for them (in .30 cal) a pistol, etc, because the total would come to 70+ lbs. Only somebody with no backpacking experience would make such a claim. SHTF, you will be getting shot at, having to run, and if you sprain an ankle or pull a hamstring, it will be a death sentence for you and your family.

    Forget about long range, because only a fool is in open country in daylight, for SHTF. Stick to thick cover or darkness, and you will be many times safer.
     
  17. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    I carried 30 cal in the service and out here food is Elk and it can be long range, Only someone from the city would say that..................
     
  18. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    [ditto] :lol: [ROFL]
     
  19. meyah

    meyah Monkey+++

    It's only long range if you are inept

    I see elk, stationary, at less than 100 yds, a dozen times a year, without even trying. You only need one elk a year, since your diet has to be over half plant origin anyway. I could foot snare an elk a year, with a drag log, and finish it off with a spear.

    Anyplace that there's elk, there's more livestock,and the cattle, llama's, sheep, goats, horses, pigs, etc, are lots easier to take.

    Somebody around here hits an elk with their vehicle, once a month, all year long. I live 5 minutes from some of the best elk hunting in the world.
     
  20. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    On thing is for sure im not inept .
    I have achery hunted for 26 years and fill my tags almost single every year.
    Your game wont be standing still when thousands of people are looking for food.
    I can go along with what you say for the most part.
    I will be carrying a 30 cal.
    I live in the hells canyon area and its wide open for the most part.
    Where is your world best Elk hunting?
     
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