The Sad State of Education in America

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by RightHand, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. RightHand

    RightHand Been There, Done That RIP 4/15/21 Moderator Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Education Reform - the president's buzz words this week.

    The theory is our education system needs more money to succeed. Last week, Zuckerberg donated 100 million to the Newark schools that spend more per student than almost any other school system in the nation and still the schools are failing to produce college or workforce ready young adults.

    We know that more money does not work - for the past 30 years, we've been pouring more and more of our hard earned dollars in failing schools. Why are they failing. Even the poorest schools and the poorest students today have technology available that wasn't even a dream when I was in school.

    My first public school experience was in Brunswick/Troy, NY where I attended a one room school with grades one through four. In case you are wondering, we did have indoor plumbing and central heat :D but we had no library, no computers, no gymnasium, no A/V, no teacher in-service days, no bi-lingual education. Between 1st grade and my high school graduation, I attended 18 different schools. As the years passed, there were libraries, Gyms, and auditoriums but still no computers, and I only remember one film projector that was shared by the entire high school.

    How is it that in such a deprived environment I was able to get such a quality education? How was it that the curriculum could include English, progressively from grammar to literature; progressive levels of math and science, physics, calculus, languages that included Latin, French, Greek, German. How was it that I learned the capitals of every state and the names and locations of every country. How was I able to learn about the history of not only my own country but other countries of the world. How did I learn to think for myself in an environment so devoid of Federal intervention that the local community actually set the standards.

    The change came when the Federal government began issuing mandates and federal funding to meet those requirements. We sold our souls to the devil and now we are living with the consequences of it's largess.

    No child left behind will succeed and it will succeed because we are not going anywhere. We're not even stalled but rather sliding backward on the education system greased by federal dollars.
  2. CrazySingleMom

    CrazySingleMom Monkey+

    Just one reason why I homeschool ;)
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I have yet to comprehend how granting wads of cash to schools that "perform" to some set of standards and depriving the rest of the systems of money that could be well expended in improving them helps. Just does NOT compute to me. Ah, well, the rich get richer --

    (And what good will it do to let the feds into local issues? More unfunded mandates?) I ORDER you to graduate all students with at least a B average. And what do you think is going to happen?
  4. jungatheart

    jungatheart Beginner's Mind

    The money, as usual, is going to buy votes from the Unions. Simple really, re-election is all Obama cares about.

    Self centerdness is what our kids are really learning in school.
  5. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Strangely enough, my school days and the stuff I learned here are much similar to what my kids learn..We learned about entire world in former Yugoslavia...We even learned how many sheep they had in New Zealand, which were the mines in Germany, major production branches in Japan, etc...We were pissed as kids...we kept sayin "why the heck do we need to know how many sheep there is in New Zealand, or what German factory Krupp made for Adolf"? But we kept on studuying...I see now with my kids that not much is changed today...I hear the same complaints from my kids today...LOL.. I just tell them to shut it and keep studying...The more you know, the more you're worth! Home schooling is not allowed here, and both primary and secondary educations are obligatory and free for all children, under threat of imprisonment of the parents. And I just love that law!
  6. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    No Child Left Behind... Everyone passes. Everyone feels good. Awwww... isn't that sweet?

    Lots of children are left behind. Usually the most intelligent ones. Teach to the dumbest in the class.

    Classrooms have removed competition between peers. Ipods can be used in class (but just in one ear, in case the teacher needs to say something important (?!?!). Calculators in grade school (Heaven forbid they learn to use their head for calculations).
    The teachers unions are the strongest in the nation. I can't believe that they'd go along with "performance" pay.
    I'd better stop before I burst a blood vessel.
    Cephus and CANDY fISHER like this.
  7. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Union Public (can you say government controlled) School Teachers are just one step behind Lawyers in my book of worthless air breathers. JMHO, I am sure plenty of you may disagree, as is your right.
  8. fireplaceguy

    fireplaceguy Monkey+

    So, if a busload of lawyers was heading off a cliff with two empty seats, we could put teachers in the seats to avert a tragedy?

    In reality, we don't have public schools in America. We have indoctrination camps that emit servile consumers.
    IndieMama likes this.
  9. CrazySingleMom

    CrazySingleMom Monkey+

    Hmm ... no ... teachers are NOT the problem... its the powers the be that control they whole system ... there are still some good teachers out there they are just stuck in a system thats on a downward spiral
  10. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Yes, no doubt there are a few good teachers out there who have not given up the good fight. They ALL are in a position to know and understand the system is not working as is. The Teacher's Union is Perverse, for they are government whores. They listen to the dictates from the government, take their money, shutup, and do as they are told. The system doesn't work. They all know it. They continue to perpetuate a failing system, taking their money, doing as they are told, smiling and pretending they are doing something good, and all the while they know it is a lie.
    Bottom line, yes!!! load two of them on that near full bus load of lawyers, and then send it over the cliff!!! No one of consequence will die.
    To not be quilty and sentenced to this horrible death, just stand up and shout, "The System Is Not Working!!!"
    No teacher will do this because, a job is a job, even if it totally sucks and accomplishes nothing worthwhile. It pays that's all that matters to them.
  11. shelly.legate

    shelly.legate Monkey+

    I have been a teacher for the last seventeen years. I quickly learned that public education was failing our students when our principal of the school was homeschooling her children. I have been involved with home school ever since.
  12. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    I just became aware of a few statistical facts unknown to me. Detroit public schools. Graduation rate 25%. Government funding $2000 dollars higher than the national average of $9000 odd dollars per student. The NEA (National Education Association) is the largest and thus most influential UNION in this nation. And last but not least, There is the US Department of Education. It became a Dept. under our great Presidente Jimmy Carter in 1979. I don't have figures on expenditures for the early years, but their budget was $14 billion in 2004, and grew to $70 Billion last year. No doubt about it, if something doesn't work, let's throw money at it.
  13. Equilibrium

    Equilibrium Monkey++

    Along a somewhat similar vein, Pa. teacher strikes nerve with 'lazy whiners' blog - Yahoo! News.
  14. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Only IF their Parents, ALLOW them to act, and be, that way......
    Tracy likes this.
  15. Equilibrium

    Equilibrium Monkey++

    Parenting is hard work. Anyone can make a baby but not everyone can parent any longer.... isn't that what schools are for. ;) Seriously.... parents aren't expected to "parent" any longer. Few consequences for failing to discipline children and no social stigma left associated with shirking one's responsibility to their own child. Behavioral issues.... no problem. Suggest your kid is BD or ADD or ADHD and.... let the school warehouse them in the classroom at the expense of the other children. Your right to parent poorly is protected under 504. We allow the labeling of kids like they're jams and jellies these days. It's big business. We mainstream kids with labels whose needs can't even be met at the expense of the other children in the classroom to generate more "revenue" for the school and we wonder why our children can no longer compete "globally". Go to one IEP and you'll see what I mean.
  16. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Some kids are plain lazy. Some are just pure EVIL. I knew one growing up, and we all agreed he'd wind up in prison. He did. His older brother had the reputation of being a 'bully', but I got along well with him. He was more the 'smart kid acting out' type - but the little brother had a demon in him.
    Other kids did well in school, even in 'less than ideal' circumstances. Bad thing is, the school system cannot boost up the 'good' kids to their potential and lock away or cut loose the bad ones that bring the entire class down. I believe there ARE some kids who should simply be sent home after getting the basic "Reading, Writing and Arithmetic" of, say, sixth grade. Why waste resources, time and limited teaching manpower?

    The thrice-damned "No children left behind" crap will be the downfall of our education system.
  17. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Our education system was destroyed with the grade-curve created with forced integration. We were warned about it, labeled racist, and it happened. Boo!
    Suerto likes this.
  18. Equilibrium

    Equilibrium Monkey++

    There is nothing more cruel than attempting to treat children as equals who aren't and never will be. The greatest injustice has been "mainstreaming".... we've been mainstreaming the ESL students who can't speak English let alone read or write it, we've been mainstreaming the LD kids by providing them with in-class tutors which is a disruption in and of itself as the aid must work with the child in the classroom setting, we have hearing impaired children who are provided with signers for when the teacher turns his/her back to the students while continuing to speak and.... the BD children all tossed into classrooms where at any given point in time the material being presented was only reaching 1/3 of the students in a subject so the teacher has a lot of stops and starts managing the behavior of the "disruptive" child. That's right, 1/3 are above the material being presented, 1/3 below, and a 1/3 are "hanging in" while all the "special" needs children with in-force IEPs are tossed in for shits and grins. It's cruel to the child because these teachers do not have the advanced degrees or experience that would enable them to truly help a special needs child reach his full potential in the "least restrictive" environment. It's the $$$ the schools now receive for "accommodating" special needs within a classroom. The schools will fight to keep our differently-abled children mainstreamed. They don't care about our special needs kids.... it's the annual $8k, over $9k in our school district, that's part of the "package" deal for warehousing our children in classrooms of their "peers" like animals. Gone are the days of the special needs classrooms that were better able to meet the needs of these children without compromising their "peers". We've gone too far when we attempt to mainstream children with IQs at room temperature on a warm day in a "traditional" classroom under the guise of being best for their "self esteem".
    And, they pass them on to higher levels of education ill-equipped to do much more than take up space in a lecture hall.... with their aids.... which are provided at the expense of other services provided in the past.
    Everyone with "normals" should be homeschooling if at all possible or screaming at the top of your lungs about the warehousing of children with needs too great to be met in a "traditional" classroom at the expense of your children's education.... remember FAPE.... that stands for free appropriate public education and don't forget this.... "least restrictive" environment which is a two-way street. These administrators can't do it.... they know they can't do it. It's the money they want.... they could care less about our children just as long as they get the money and can pass them on like hot potatoes. We have a need right now for a return to contained classrooms with teachers qualified to "teach" special needs children and that includes all the ESL students. Your normals are not and never will be the "peers" of differently abled.
    VHestin likes this.
  19. Cephus

    Cephus Monkey+++ Founding Member

    I remember back in the late 50's and very early 60's if you couldn't do the work you didn't pass.
    we had 3 people in the 7th grade that were driving to school in NJ (you had to be 17 to get a license) and they were in the same class as the 12 and 13 year old kids. This is about the time things began to change with just pass them or get them into the military ,several of them went to the Army and turned out to be very good soldiers but most just hit the streets and still hung out with the same kids from school.
    I believe this when things started to go down hill at very high rate speed also around this time they took God out of the class room ,coincidental
    I think not but that is JMHO.
    Take it or leave it !!!
  20. mrs fish

    mrs fish Monkey+

    english schools are just as bad which is why we have started home school since january
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