The Sheriffs got a .50 cal machine gun!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by FrancisMarion, Mar 14, 2008.


  1. FrancisMarion

    FrancisMarion Monkey+++

    http://rcsd.net/media/mar08/03-05-peacemaker.html

    http://www.thestate.com/crime/story/337543.html

    My local Sheriffs department recently purchased an M113A2 APC topped with a .50 caliber machine gun! Kinda upsetting because I feel that if a Sheriff arrives on a scene and says "damn, we could really use a .50 right now!" then they should pack up and call the national guard because its obviously not a "law enforcement" situation. So I started making phone calls. Ive called the sheriffs department 5 times. They always transfer me to someone who isnt around so i get an answering machine. I then called the local news station and told them about it. Havent heard anything from them. Well today I was able to get on the radio with a local talk show host and brought this issue up. He told me that next week the sheriff would be on his program and that i should call back and speak with him. Fine by me. The next caller proceeded to call me a "liberal wuss and that the sheriff needs the .50 to shoot bank robbers." [lolol]

    When I speak with the Sheriff I want to have an airtight argument. Besides the fact that, well its a .50 caliber machine gun and it's capable of shooting through half my city, can anyone else help me with some points to present to the sheriff.

    I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance Monkeys!

    The two links above are to the article in my state paper and the sheriffs department. Both have short articles about this vehicle and pictures.

    By the way, they named the vehicle "The Peacemaker" personally i think they should call it "The pieces maker"

    Francis Marion
     
  2. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Ask him where the money for that beast originated. Might be really interesting to find the public funded it. Where was Ways and Means when that was appropriated?
     
  3. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    What use do they need something like this for? What if the "Bad Guys" take a page from the Iraqi insurgency's book. M113 APC's did not fare well against the smallest emplaced ied's during the begining of the war. There is a few still over there, but I never saw one outside the wire. Unbeliveable
     
  4. FrancisMarion

    FrancisMarion Monkey+++

    Gh the money apparently came from the "General budget fund". and was purchased through the 1033 program which enables law enforcement agencies to pay up to $2500 a year to recieve military surplus.

    "1033 program" website
    http://www.gs.sc.gov/surplus/SP-1033-index.phtm
     
  5. franks71vw

    franks71vw Monkey+++

    And again why should he have not bought this. What makes a difference if John doe you and me can own it why not the sheriff I am sorry here but asking such a dumb question boils my blood maybe you dont have or cant afford one. But as American as apple why last time I checked the 2nd amendment is not nor willit ever be for SPORTING USE ONLY firearms. It is a modern and very effective firearm to own. I bet when people know the sheirff has that they won't pull the crap they did in the PRK (thats PEOPLES REPUBLIC of KALIFORNIA). An armed society is a peaceful society. I will dontate time and energy if they need to upkeep the APC and the 50 and i dont even live in thestate in question here. The liberal mindset has never settled in my stomach hold on gotta :sick:
     
  6. FrancisMarion

    FrancisMarion Monkey+++

    Frank I dont know what state you live in, but if i bought a .50 caliber machine gun im pretty sure some goverment agency would kick in my front door. What liberal mindset do you speak of? Am I a lib because i dont want some local yokel opening fire on a crack house and destroying the entire block. I think you missed my point. Please explain to me a situation in which a local sheriff would need a .50 cal machine gun? Human wave attacks? the state capital has been taken over and their going to assault the building? Whats next for the Sheriff? A cobra attack helicopter complete with hellfire missles?
     
  7. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Wel just ask him if he would support private citizens haveing such a weapon for personal or home protection. Most likely he would not so you simply ask him why not. His likely anwser would be that its not needed for protection. If a private citizen dont need it to defend from a bad guy then how is it that the BGs get so much harder to kill when dealing with cops that the cops need one? If his response why John Q public dont ned it is that its the polices job to protect them then simply ask how many people have been assaulted in his jurisdiction in the past year then follow it up with, if its your job to protect the people to the point they dont need the tools to protect themselves then the fact that those people were assaulted would indicate you and your department have failed to do your job, so dose that mean you are incompetent and plan to resign?

    If on the other hand he will publicly state that he WOULD support private citizens owning such weapons then I would say you have a good sherif and nothing to worry about since that would indicate he is on your side. You also in most states CAN own similar weapons, such as you could own a twin .50 from the WWII era mounted on whatever you wanted so long as you can afford one from before (IIRC1986) plus the tax stamp ($200 IIRC) file the paperwork, pass the check AND get the sherif to sign off on it. So you could even let him know you were interested in picking some up on the air to be sure if he will support PUBLICLY no less the right of law abideing citizens to have just as much fire power as they do or more if they want it and can afford it.
     
  8. franks71vw

    franks71vw Monkey+++

    oh its on...lol not a situation at all, its sad that you live in a place that people think like that. but lets get to the basics and very simple its all starts with the 2nd Amendment. Hell did you know you can own a 20mm DD rifle (NFA) thats a much bigger round but if you pass the BI and pay a tax your good to go. its the principle that you can own it. That mind set is like saying the police doesnt need a vehicle with a big V8 (ie mustang or camaro highway patrol car) what are they (police department) going to do go and drag race. Please come on, obviously you are not in the firearm scene. Frankly, I will give you two perfect examples. First example is when the 2 guys had illegal ak47 full auto weapons and held the police and swat down for a good while. The police had to run to a gun shop to get AR15 clone rifles to try and match their firepower again they were criminals with illegal firearms. 1 shot out of that 50, bingo those guys would have been done for sure and no its not a spray of 50 cal bullets, you can control it and not load it with API ammo, regular ball ammo would do fine. (personally 308 AP ammo would do just fine, not .223). The next example is a perfect one for this firearm and that of the guy that spent 1 year retrofitting a dozer into an armored tank with gun ports etc. The guy took out alot of businesses out etc with that dozer (oh dont tell me lets outlaw dozers.) With the steel the dozer had, it would have been hard to hit it with anything less. See the way I see it is that your coming up with sensational news media stuff and not really thinking on real world application. Granted, for him to really find a use for the weapon when the time comes is kinda like having a condom. Its better to have one then need one. I honestly can't see that the Sheirff is going to use the APC and 50 m2hb to kick someone out of their house for not paying their rent or to pull someone over for speeding. I really just dont see it. I see it more as being prepared in just in case. Hell, I would if I was him... you think only [mex] are crossing the boarders sad thing is you need to be prepared more then you think.. Maybe I like being over prepared maybe its me...OSB
     
  9. franks71vw

    franks71vw Monkey+++

    We all take an oath to defend the constitution thats my point. The 2nd amendment is not for sporting rifles only. Its for weapons that may be needed to to protect this nation from foreign or domestic threats. If that sheriff says no a citizen can not have it I would raise hell as he is not support the second ammendment like most politicians do just to get votes etc (whole other story) and now you have to factor out that he wants more control over you then what you can ever have over me.


    Rant on.. In Komiefornia the 50 bmg rifles/cartidge etc were outlawed. Yet you tell me does it make sense to outlaw something that has never ever been used in a crime. Hell cars get used to rob banks why not ban them. More people die in car accidents then get shot but nooooo ban guns. How many people get stabbed lets do like in Great Britain and lets start to ask if Chefs really need a 9" Chefs nife as people are being stabbed with them oh and lets not forget Samurai Swords those are on the chopping block as well over the pond. Please come on where is the common sense here. If the sheriff had $3000.00 to spend and they needed handcuffs first aid kits etc then bad decision yeah but come on if he had the budget I bet no one in that ton is gonna pull crazy crap. Rant off oh and I am with you monkeyman hence what i said
     
  10. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    I for one, see your point.
    ??uh protect and serve? The sheriff works for the people like any other elected official ( pardon my anti authoritarian attitude; I may be mistaken but I don't believe cops are above any laws and are not allowed excessive force anymore than any civillian, any cop shooting withstands the same district attorney scrutiny as regular civillian. cops don't get "licensed to kill" this military armament will just as likely used to intimidate local civillians in time of unrest.
    Look at the "good" side ,if the s really htf, a few guys, a good ambush( 113's had gasoline engines an d didn't like mr molotov)and you got a new toy to beat back ravenwood...(har hart-just- kidding mr NSA man)..
    probably find it permanently parked outside the fed courthouse come the gun grab and subsequent prosecutions The militarization of american civillian LEO is just wrong.
     
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    An armed society is indeed a peaceful society, even tho' massively overused as a sound bite. Keyword here is society, not those who are to "protect and serve." It looks to me as tho' the county has spent 2 large a year for access to military equipment and simply decided to make that expense worthwhile in a big and blatant way. I cannot help but think that the money would be better spent on training the cops and acquire more "stuff" to help rather than threaten. Deterrent? Maybe, but I doubt it. About the only time that machine will get used is in parades, SRT be damned.

    I just don't think the thin blue line has to be rattling sabers, they ought to be directing traffic (if that is still taught at the academy) and chasing cases, or hiring more officers. Thus spake me, and me only.
     
  12. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Yup I normaly might not have evn be as worried about how to show the sherif DIDNT need one but my attitude toward LEOs today isnt real high. You have 2 distinctly different types of sherifs out there, the ones who are there to serve and protect and then the ones who are there to enforce laws and rule over the people. Like I mentioned, if his sherif supports the people in the area then dont sweat it, look at it that your buddy that has your back just got more firepower just in case. On the other hand if the sherif is the type that feels the laws simply get in the way of him keeping folks in their place and will go as far as the law lets them to keep folks under their thumb then I figure its like a bumpersticker I have seen, 'fear the government that fears your guns'. With that type of sheriff I also wouldnt want them to have access to that kind of fire power.

    Like I say though my attitude is a bit poor today anyhow. Someone that drives by our place (on the highway) decided our donkey looked to skinny and called the sherif to say we were neglecting him (he's thin but healthy). So the deputy pulls in the drive and hits his horn/siren (the worble thing) a couple times. I didnt recognize the sound but went to see what it was. Now if Im clothed (and sometimes when Im not) Im armed. I was sitting in the front room watching the tube when he arived and didnt have my overshirt on. I also have my CCW permit and here in MO open carry is leagle under state law and so is car carry even without a permit. I came out and the oficer informs me he needs to take my gun (my Tshirt was up and showing the grips and I hadnt realized it) then he unload it and puts it in his car and wants to know why I had a gun on me when he was there then he wants me to show him the donkey and its food and so on. Once that was all handled then he decides he needs to run my ID and the numbers on my gun to find out if I have warrents or if the gun is stolen. You cant have a record and get the permit in the first place. Then he informs me he will come back in a few days to check back (we were out of grain but had plenty of hay so he wants to se the grain) and that I need to be sure not to be armed (on my own property) next time. Yet imagine that, he didnt bother to ask permission to cary the gun, taser, baton, and pepper spray on his belt on MY property and never bothered to remove them.

    So like I say after being treted like a criminal in my own drive because some moron didnt like the way my critter looks then comeing inside and catching the story on the news where a lady in KC got pulled over by a cop because 'she was weaving' IN HER WHEELCHAIR on her way to work and harrased then ticketed for no registration for her chair, which no, it cant be registered. After my day, my opinion of LE is considerably lower than usual.

    I figure next time I see him I will also talk with our sherif and see if cant be sure that if they ever need to send an officer out here in the future to be sure and NOT send that one. Its the second time he has been here and the second time he has been a prick, and most of the oficers out here I have dealt with are real decent folks.
     
  13. FrancisMarion

    FrancisMarion Monkey+++

    Frank I never said anything about outlawing the .50. I agree with you 100% on the second amendment. It aint about deer huntin. I just cant figure out why the police would need a .50 caliber machinegun. A 50 cal sniper. Absolutely! Able to take out engine blocks, blast through fortified positions etc etc. The problem I have is there is no where "safe" to shoot this thing in this city. Bad guy runs across the street, bam bam bam, where are those rounds going? Into someones house perhaps? Into a passing vehicle? I believe Tango hit the nail on the head. Its about the militarization of our LEO's. How about they use that money to train the police force instead of buying something that will never be used, unless of course Red Dawn becomes a reality.
     
  14. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    BTW, I do figure that in anything short of a total meltdown there wouldnt be any need for the full auto .50 for law enforcement purposes, the only time it would be useful would be if the sherif was on your side and the blue hats (like Ravenwood on Jerico in whatever version) were comeing over the ridge in a TEOTWAWKI situation, or to intimidate citizens. Other than that it would be to play with or show off in parades since even in the examples you mentioned a semi auto or even bolt action .50 BMG would do as well or better. The APC its self on the other hand would be very useful for swat deployments in a hostile area so you could get them to the door or behind a place even through a field of fire safely. The FULL auto .50 though is just a bit hard to see for police work. So like I say, IMO the only way its a good thing is if its your buddy that has your back rather than the one who will be trying to grind a boot on your face in a SHTF situation.

    ETA Not to mention that if they happen to be like Saint Louis PD, the ones who fired over 50 rounds at a suspect at close range and never hit him in the middle of the day, I would MUCH rather see the money go to training with what they had than let them near a full auto and thats even if they WERENT the ones who also tend to oppose citizens rights.
     
  15. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Thatstory abouthe donkey Sux from any number of angles, i can see him disarming you while you talk and even him checking ids and numbers (even though technically he had no probable cause to think you were a criminal.)but thats no way to treat you on your own rural(?)property.
     
  16. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Yup, I can carry it (even got the permission slip signed off on by his boss) down the street and into most any busines and so on, anyone even without a permit can carry open or concaled in their vehicle in MO (so long as the gun is legaly owned) and I have been pulled over 3 or 4 time since had my permit (includeing in another state that recognizes the permit) and even at traffic stops along the road where I informed them I was carrying, none of the oficers have had an issue with it before or wanted to disarm me or run my gun (in fact they have gotten more friendly and even the one time I had a ticket comeing let me go) but this idiot in my own drive in the country (I regularly shoot from the back pourch) wanted to pull that crap. He was rude the last time he was out also.
     
  17. franks71vw

    franks71vw Monkey+++

    Monkey man

    If i were you i would make a complaint agaisnt this officer and go to his boss and then IA. Ask why who what when and answer them accordingly. furthermore, ask if their is any possible retribution in the future for you doing this. Basically getting it in writting so in the future if anything does happen guess what its on a report or some place.
     
  18. Conagher

    Conagher Dark Custom Rider Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Francis,[/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]I'd ask the sheriff what his opinion is on police protection policies regarding the protection of American citizens. If he gives some BS answer tell him that according to the Supreme Court;[/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Most households do not know that police have "no duty to protect individuals." [/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]As a head of a household, one might find this useful. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]If you like the Supreme Court, try Castle Rock v. Gonzales, Supreme Court, 2005. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]"No constitutional right to police protection." This has been true since the formation of an organized police force in the U.S. Gun control policy hides this and other useful data.[/FONT]

    If his answer is that it's the police department's duty to serve and protect the American public, and that you and I have a right to own a .50 cal machine gun, then he'll have your vote when his position comes up for re-election......[beer]
     
  19. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Its not like the "sheriff as a private citizen(billy BOB) bought the thing the department did,so 2nd amendment arguments really don't apply.My thinking on cops opened up when during the AFOSI academy we were taught our "Powers of arrest" come from an article in the UCMJ ,the same one that grants that authority to ANY NCO (no special "knighthood" there).Cops are civillians too under the law, doing a job. Impertinent attitude like that, I'm probably over due for a tasing...
    Idon't believe they have any right to thump you if you don't smile at them.
    Its kinda like giving the kindergarten teacher a bullwhip to control the 6 year olds at recess.Would it get results? Yes, but the idea is not to bloody them just get them to cooperate. Same with a .50
     
  20. franks71vw

    franks71vw Monkey+++

    Tango,

    Maybe the point of the 2nd amendment was clear, I say it starts with it not on the side of LEOs but of the People and since the People can have such firearms I think it is prudent for the LEO to have just incase. I am not saying the the Second Amendment authorizes LEOs to have a firearm. Funny how LEO and military can have full autos but the 1986 ban limits the quantities The people can have We will shortly see what will happen to the constitution of this great nation. the way I see it you cant have the first amendment wth out the second.
     
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