The Tree of Liberty ....

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Clyde, Jun 22, 2007.

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  1. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    is dead. It requires water..the blood of patriots and tyrants to refresh its roots and remind the inhabitants of this great nation has trampled the constitution, freedoms, and liberties our founding fathers handed us so we could stand aside and watch our government grow and destroy those liberties...unchecked.

    Where are the patriots? We consider ourselves patriots, but we do nothing. Assuming the patriots can't get Ron Paul past the primaries, what are we willing to do?

    Do we liquidate, consolidate and emigrate? Do we stand-up like true minutemen before it is too late?

    Perhaps another beer will help me think clearer. I have my axe and saw and my blood. To water or cut it down, that is the question?
  2. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    It makes me sick. We seem to have given up before we ever fought -- we were given a 2nd amendment and guaranty which we chose to never use because it might cost our lives. we are not the men our forefathers were. When the words don't work, we sit back and wait for the next liberty **** from the government.
  3. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Hear ya' man try this on for size:.consider it a martial arts strategy: the gov and globalists( and brainwashed battalions of sheep) are far too big and powerfull an adversary for a "small group of altruists, so we let the sheer weight and clumsiness of the adversary destroy itself...just don;''t be under it when it falls.
  4. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    Thank God Franklin, Jefferson, Hancock, and Revere, et all, didn't wait for the .gov to crumble on them.....they acted. We haven't.

  5. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

  6. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    They had a sizeable armed force..... we don't.

    I understand where your comin from but to go at 'em headfirst is suicide for the individual and the cause. You're trying to save something that's already lost.

    I'm with MM. With some luck and some perserverance from the patriots, we will one day get back to the way things were supposed to be, but not until the current system crumbles.

    I no longer see the times I live in as the end product of a nation building experiment gone wrong, I see myself living at the early stages of a nation building experiment with promise for a future yet to be.
  7. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    When Seacowboys asked who is the enemy this is what I wrote.

    IMHO the enemy is all around us. They are the ones that beg .gov to do something. Anytime something bad happens they are begging to have rights, YOURS AND MINE, taken away and .gov is more than happy to take care of them. The enemy is the welfare cases, the people on SSI, the farmers getting their farm welfare, corperations getting their tax breaks/insentives/corperate welfare, and all the others with their hands out wanting their fare share. In other words the enemy is your and mine niegbors, these are the true enemies. The ones that demand something be done instead of demanding that the Consitition be followed to a T. The ones that have never read the Consitition nor have any idea what it says or means. These are the enemies we really need to conccer ourselves with. Without changing the hearts and minds of Americans you can not change the derection that this country is on for the long term.


    I know what you are saying and agree with you. But heres the thing, even if you righted all the wrongs in the system, IMHO it would not last. The reason being is that if people get elected the masses are going to demand their so called freebies and to be cared for from craddle to grave. If the TPTB doesn't give it to them, then they will just vote in anyone who will promise to take care of them. I think that overturning the government would be the easy part. Changing the hearts and minds of the people is the real challange.


    BTW I hope this doesn't kill the tread like it did on the other one.
  8. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    As invisible as a homeless person, as cruel as a child. My brain hurts. Time to think.
  9. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    What? I would say we have a very formidable force of "armed" americans. Unfortunately we are incapable of organizing this group to make our point known.

    That multi-million minuteman march is about a peaceful and the only real way to organize something that wouldn't land you in Gitmo.

    Seacowboys, bring it on. Aspirin will fix the headache.
  10. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    OGM Astute analysis...
    I think you hit on the root of the problem.Going back to the 200 year lifespan of a republic because of the: "electing people who will vote themselves wealth from the public treasury" idea...What to do? What to do?

    ...Its a flaw in the system and human nature(power, greed and selfishness)....better than any other system but flawed none the less.

    Perhaps its the size of a`representative democracy that ensures its death.If a constitutional republic were set up in a limited area, and you and your neighbors could discuss issues with the representative over coffee and exercise the power of a busted nose or direct and immediate removal from his position if he didn't represent your block ( of 10 citizens) .Once the system gets so large we lose representation we are condemed to just hanging to the bulls nuts for the ride.[own2]???
  11. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    I'm all in for the MMMMarch thing..... but how to organize? I don't know.
  12. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member


    I'm getting more and more like minuteman. Just looking to hide out and stay out of the way of the thrashing of death throes. I have tried and tried to get others to notice the decay around us. Most of them just snicker and think "Conspiracy theory" cest la vie Most can't seem to realize that us 'watchdogs' are on patrol for them too.

    I'm placing food over everything else in my ongoing preps these days. I figure I should have as much as how long I'd like to eat.

    I will never be a boot licker even if my biggest play is civil disobedience and monkey wrenching

  13. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

  14. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Dear Subscriber,

    The great American experiment, an attempt to have a system of
    government whose purpose is to preserve and protect individual
    liberty, ABSOLUTELY FAILED. Denying that fact at this point is just
    silly. So why exactly does anyone think that trying the same thing
    again would turn out better? Let's take it beyond the slim
    possibility of getting Ron Paul elected President. Let's suppose we
    figured out a way to resurrect Thomas Jefferson, James Madison,
    Alexander Hamilton, and the rest of them, and give them control of
    the government. What reason is there to think we wouldn't end up
    where we are now?

    Sure, it would take a while to get back to here, and you and I
    probably wouldn't be around to suffer the consequences of the
    SECOND failed attempt. But it would get to totalitarianism
    nonetheless. Now, I've heard people say that what we have today is
    NOT the fault of the Constitution, but the fault of the people who
    didn't value freedom, who weren't vigilant, who fell for the tricks
    of politicians, and so on. Oddly, those same people will criticize
    communists who make the same argument: that the IDEA is fine, it's
    just imperfect people keep botching it up. What good is an idea
    that doesn't work in the real world? The Constitution DIDN'T WORK.
    It didn't keep government in check; instead, it made something that
    grew into the biggest tyrannical empire in the history of the world
    (though not the most overtly violent... yet). That's not to say
    there weren't some huge leaps in the right direction, regarding
    issues concerning individual rights, limited powers of
    "government," etc. But it wasn't enough, and anyone who looks at
    modern America and still denies the FAILURE of the Constitution is
    no better than the people who look at the Soviet Union and fail to
    see the FAILURE of Communism. It took the Constitution a lot longer
    to fail, because it was infinitely wiser than the short-sighted
    anti-human stupidity underlying communism, but it failed
    nonetheless, and for the same reason: it was based on the myth of

    Many Americans, including many of those I deeply respect, still
    revere the Constitution as a near-divine entity, and consider
    criticism of it to almost amount to heresy. In my own case alone, I
    have seen that the First Amendment is dead; the Second Amendment is
    all but dead; the Fourth Amendment is dead, buried, and eaten by
    worms; the Fifth Amendment is in a coma; the Sixth Amendment has
    been cremated; and the Ninth and Tenth Amendments have died,
    decomposed, turned to dust, and blown away. So don't tell me the
    Constitution worked. It didn't. Now why, exactly, do you think
    trying the same thing again, via a Ron Paul presidency, would work
    out any better in the long run (especially considering the
    collectivist mindset that most Americans now have)?


    Larken Rose
  15. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Good artwork.
    [ghrit] [gone]
  16. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    I don't think you really got what I was saying. What I ment is that the voters in America today are going to vote for who ever promisses them the most. Granted that the pol. are just in it because of greed, but I don't believe that, that is our biggest problem. It is simply the American people themselves. With out changing the hearts and minds of the common Americans IMHO all is lost.

  17. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Guess I worded that wrong " I meant to agree; people vote for those who give them free stuff from the treasury": either way you've got a point...

    I don't know how to remove that sense of entitlement.
    Watched daytime TV "dr phil " other day at my mother in laws there was an umemployed women Named "carlena who was 50 or 60,00 dollars in debt and was still loading up the cards on shoes and plasma tv's and when asked
    why she bought the expensive luxuries when she obviously couldn't pay for them she responded" I deserve it!" and dr phil asked why? what have you done to deserve these? " "Well" she huffed "I'm Carlena! and people would talk about me if I didn't have this stuff"...

    It was beyond comprehension...
  18. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Homeless people are invisible. Push a shopping cart anywhere, any time; beg for money and nobody sees you. You are invisible. Invisible people can do anything. Just a random thought.
  19. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Well that was eye opening melbo(thanks) I would count myself in the "sacriledge!" bunch but you proved your point..pretty effectively.

    You know if it ever got to the point of aleksander's scenario where black fatigued storm troopers were coming up stairwells at night to grab your family, not a one of us would have trouble laying down withering hail of fire upon these cutthroats in the chokepoint....which is why I don't see any troopers being that stupid. I hate using movies for reference but like in "v" once they do something really offensive: hurting our kids then its tire irons, crowbars ,axes and barehanded human wave attacks...They can't kill all of us.Unless we were secured in a camp. Even then they'd have a hell of a fight. day in and day out.
  20. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    thanks Ii really like can go most places with a roll of plans under yourarm too..point alot,measure something, look busy, don't answer challenges and act like you belong there. Done it to install covert cctv.( in broad daylight).

    more random thoughts: "book code" take several copies of a book hand one to each individual write out your message using words found somewhere in the book Page#, line# word #. don't use the same numbers twice. if the title is compromised the code is compromised..
    102,15,27 probably crackable with a cray and digitized library.
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