The utility of body Armor in a SHTF scenario.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kevin, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. kevin

    kevin Monkey+

    In my case.. as a working stiff, with limited resources available… what do you guys think about investing in body armor as an individual…Kevlar or otherwise.. in case we have to get qualified on “the two-way range?”

    I've seen plate armor which will stop rifle rounds but it seems to be only for LEO or military types. Is investment in body armor worth the money? In preparing for a SHTF scenario… is it worth spending money now on body armor that may or may not help you. Would the expense be better used on things like more ammo, fire power, or food stores?
  2. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Personally, I have absolutely no intention of getting into open field gunfight in SHTF. I would probably be ambushing, or be ambushed. Armor has no use then...and besides, no armor can stop close range AK with AP ammo spray all over and to the thigs or head...or TT 7.62 pistol at close range, or a sniper headshot, or neck, or lateral body shot, or brachial or femoral vessels shot... Plus it would probably make you feel falsely secure or less alert...and could make you less agile. I won't be getting any armor...
  3. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Having worn it for work... i can say... it's hot , cuts down on your movement some, expensive, and while it's good (levelII) for most rounds a knife or arrow will go through it like swiss cheese... getting hit by any large calibre or shot gun slug while not penetrating will still put you in the hospital for a bit... or give someone a chance for a second shot.... if you have lots of $$ with nothing else to spend it one buy some... Otherwise get everything else that you need first before wasting your $$ on some...

    Band also makes a good point if you wear Body armor you may take chances that you wouldn't normally cause you are "Bullet Proof"...

    Just a thought...
  4. kckndrgn

    kckndrgn Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    When I worked at a local range I picked up a new vest from Body Armor / Bullet proof Vests (think that's the site anyway) it wasn't too expensive and I got some free stuff from them as well. Figure it ain't gonna hurt to have a vest around should things get bad
  5. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Amen WD01...all very true...
  6. padkychas

    padkychas Monkey+++

    German Flectar Camo Vest - Used Part #FLAK-VEST
    I bought 2 of these German Flectar flack vests and moved the inserts from one into the other, so there is 28 layers of kevlar. a class 3 vest has 32 to
    34 layers of kevlar. I think that these give more coverage than most vests that leave the sides and over the shoulders uncovered. with the neck and shoulder pads removed it could be concealed.
    I did a test to see if it would work and I have the photo below.
    Here is a photo of a shoulder insert with 14 layers of kevlar that was folded over and shot with a surplus FMJ 7.62x25mm from about 10 feet away.
    the 88 grain bullet was stopped after it penetrated the 14 layers of kevlar (the bottom of the insert in the image was on the outside) and as you can see the yellow kevlar that was pulled threw with the bullet. the next 14 layer did stop the bullet after they were pushed one inch into the stop made of tightly bundled newspapers.
    If I was shot with a 7.62x25mm wearing this vest I believe it would be stopped but it would brake a rib at least.
    I did shoot the other shoulder insert with a Nato 9mm FMJ and it did penetrate 4 layers of kevlar, bulge the next 10 and was stopped with a small lump on the back of the second 14 layers of kevlar.

  7. Joseph Thomas

    Joseph Thomas Monkey+

    If you take one round into your body armor you will still be incapacitated because of a broken rib or internal bleeding, Either way you will need medical attention. I agree with the above post, If you have extra money buy it. If not I would stock up on food and the tools for food production and preservation.
  8. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    I am generally against BA. Having used it in the sandbox, toting 40lbs around before you add any ammo, weapons, or water isn't easy. As the temperature climbs, hydration increases. As it drops, cold weather injuries become a problem.

    For reference:
    Most police BA is Level II or Level III. Level III will stop up to 9mm.

    Most flak vests are rated around Level III. They were not meant to stop bullets but will as the above pic demonstrates. They were designed for fragments.

    Modern military BA is level IV. It generally consists of steel or ceramic plates on top of level III soft armor. The reason is that spalling is a MF. When a bullet strikes the hard plate, in some instances, the back side of the plate can throw off projectiles that can be just as bad as bullets.

    There are also Level IV stand alone plates. They are carried in plate carriers.
  9. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    My son a deputy here, wears a level III with 2 ( I insisted) titanium inserts/plates. I paid for the thing and it took 4 weeks at least to get it....I paid $1,000.00 for the thing! He wears it every day he works, even on off duty jobs. It is heavy, it is hot, and at first he complained about it, but he knows it's the best I could buy, so he wears it! We originally looked into the "Dragon Skin" but it was NOT for sale at the time, only ads, and BS on it....Then when it was available, it was WAY OVER PRICED!
    It is probably one of the best, BUT, everything has it's limits!
    I have 2 old Vietnam flak vests, that are made of multiple layers of kevlar, and no longer any good, or for stopping much of anything but maybe a falling out of the sky round....They were NEVER good at stopping much anyway!
    They look good, hanging in the closet though!
  10. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    Kevlar vs crossbow=yikes!
  11. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    I tried out a LVL IV ceramic, multi-hit rig during the summer. It was not too bad. It was only mildly warmer and only 8 lbs per plate.
  12. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    I don't know about that mine kept some of the mosquitos off....;)
  13. Suerto

    Suerto Monkey+

    It will be the difference of a wound or death.. I'll take the wound..
    I bartered for all mine, so, you dont always have to pay cash..

    My thought process was that it would assist in my "survival" percentage points, and so I got some.. lvl3 and lvl4, concealable and not.. with armor plates.

    Ammo and "firepower" are only as good as you can practice using it. That costs money too. Rest assured, there will always be someone faster, sharper, more accurate, and with "more firepower" than you.. He may not have body armor though, and if you do, it gives you a second chance to get the hell outta dodge. ;)

    Everybodys got guns, and if things devolve, I'm sure there will be plenty of bullets flying around.. If you need to make a run for it (with your supplies) armor could assist in keeping you alive.

    I'm not discounting any previous posts, they are all valid points of why not to bother, just giving my reasons why I did..
  14. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    SHTF is not war, so no open shootouts...ambushes and nightly swift sweeps would probably be prevalent...sniper headshots too...unless you plan to wear bulletproof helmet and sleep in armor..
  15. OffTheGridReady

    OffTheGridReady Monkey+

    Body armor would be one of the last items I would purchase. The money will be better spent of other supplies like water, food, hand tools. Besides, wearing a vest 24x7 is not really practical. Besides, what are you going to do when they shoot you in the head, or arm, or leg?
  16. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Yeah, I figured someone would soon enough say: "Head Shots"!
    Even if you are hit in a femoral artery or the carotid artery, GAME OVER.
  17. Suerto

    Suerto Monkey+

    I thought the whole point was to "survive" to get to your preps?
    Body armor, although not high on everybody's list, does have its uses as far as assisting in keeping you alive. I happend to run across some for a good deal, so I got it. Not saying its necessary, or going to keep you alive, just saying it could help. And when I bother getting something, I do it right, it did come with a helmet, groin and neck protection, the other set is concealable..

    But if your running up against crack shot ambush teams and snipers, then your SOL anyway.. I was thinking more for the stray bullet coming from people randomly plinking at you as you attempt to leave, or move from location to location..

    What if you were hit in the chest with a 9mm without BA? Thats the premise that I am referring to. Something to assist you in moving along, as opposed to being brought down by some punk with a 9mm.. So you can die a glorious death fending off your bunker from a more worthy opponent, like, the military when they come to take your guns away..

    I've never been in a full blown warzone, but, Mexico under marshal law, Baytown afterdark, and New Orleans after Katrina (which I have been in all 3 places) is more of the scenario that I am picturing for city-wide breakdown in civility (although, none of those places were very civil to begin with).. I wasnt planning on challenging military units..

    Appearantly we are picturing different scenarios in which these supplies will be utilized..
    What about when going out to scout for more supplies? or check on a neighbor or what have you..
    To each is own.
  18. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    I agree... if the primary logic is that it's not useful because of amazing shots, then ****, don't bother with any armor for the troops.
  19. bnmb

    bnmb On Hiatus Banned

    The point was that armor is not high on prep list.. It can't save you from automatic or semi-auto spray. If they get your legs, femoral arthery, upper arms, brachial, carotid arthery, etc, having armor doesnt mean much...look at that moron on youtube that got shot through armor...and it was 9mil...imagine TT or AK spray at range of 10-20 meters...
  20. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Ok, not high on the list.. but definitely not on the "Useless" list. But at longer than normal ranges, snipers go for the body (in many cases) to maximize the chance of a hit. Aside from that, if you're standing out in the open during a firefight, I can't say that it would be the smartest thing to do. However, you do have to move and the body box is the biggest target. Legs move, head is small.. good luck with that except for a random shot, a bit of luck or if you're unlucky, you might just end up at the beaded end of a guy who knows how to shoot.

    Soft armor is not something you want to wear in a fight with rifles.. so I'm not sure where you're heading with that argument.

    I have a level IV multi hit plate. Not that I want to stand around long enough to get hit once.. but it will take .223, 7.62 (30 cal) more than a few times.
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