Their Paradigm.

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by VisuTrac, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Why when we look at these protesters do we see them as rabble rousers, rich kids with nothing better to do, whiners.

    OMG! We are beginning to sound like our parents.

    It's because we are not willing to step back and look at their world through their eyes. Our view has been shaped by our own experiences. Not theirs.

    To those protesters under 30, they have known nothing but real economic loss of buying power, greed, wide spread political corruption. Not just the local 'boss hogg' corruption but wholesale corruption of the entire political system by corporate bribery, lobbyists and the revolving door between industry and elected office. AND War. Think about it. Since the mid 80's, The US has dragged a coalition of the willing and coerced into conflict after conflict or gone it alone.

    '86 Operation El Dorado Canyon where we bombed the Libyan capital 60+dead
    '87 Operation Nimble Archer where we attacked 2 iranian oil platforms
    '88 USS Vincennes shoot down of Iran Air Flight 655 :290 dead
    '89 US naval aircraft shoot down 2 Libyan fighters in the Mediterranean ocean 70 miles north of Libya. 2 dead pilots
    '90 Operation Just Cause we invade Panama to capture Manuel Noriega killing 200 civilians in the process. Noriega was on our payroll.
    '91 Desert Storm, Desert Shield. 130,000+ killed or wounded (all sides)
    '93 Battle of Mogadishu around 5000 casualties to capture 1 warlord
    '95 Nato Bombing of the Serbs. 1k+ soldiers killed, civilian count unknown. Estimates of a few to several hundred. Unknown wounded.
    '99 bombing of Kosovo, 1k soldiers and police on ground dead. 1-4k civilians dead.

    then we had the 2000's
    War in Afghanistan
    War on Terror
    Drone Strikes in Yemen
    War in Iraq (Iraqi Freedom)
    Drone Attacks in Pakistan
    Gunship attack on Somalia Al' queda camps.

    The world is at war, and these are only the places that we are playing.

    You've got haiti, georgia, Ivory Coast, Phillipenes, east timor, liberia, lebanon, syria, kenya, sudan, albania, etcetera. Millions have died or been maimed.

    there are only 2 continents that don't have hot wars going on to my knowledge. Australia and Antarctica.

    I'm really missing the cold war. Man, I really miss the 80's good times , good times.

    Kids are coming out of college (because we told them they needed an education) 40-80+ grand in debt, can't find a job because us old fogies can't afford to retire and free up a place for them. Businesses sitting on trillions of dollars and not hiring.

    Yep, They are the ones that are paying the price, and will be paying off our collective debts. We have put them at an extreme disadvantage. I am the only child (of 4) in my family that is doing better than my folks. The prospects for my kids? Not looking so good. My oldest might just wind up being one of those voices, as she graduates a state university in December, in fighting for her Generation. And there will be two more following her into the 'Greatest Indebted Generation'.

    As Red Green says, Remember, I'm pulling for you, We are all in this together.
  2. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    too true, ihave my kids to continue supporting cuz of this mess
  3. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    The problem is we gen x-ers raised our kids with a horrible sense of entitlement. They are the generation who receive trophies for 6th place and now come to expect reward for very little outlay of effort. Maybe we thought we were doing well with whole "helicopter mother thing" trying to protect them from the evils of the world. What we are really doing is stunting their growth as human beings. The world is not fair. Life is not fair. That's life. We are guaranteed the pursuit of happiness NOT happiness itself. You have to work for that. Maybe if we stopped worrying about hurting our kids' feelings for long enough to teach them some of the realities of life we'd be in a better situation.
  4. beast

    beast backwoodsman

    you dont get rainbows without rain
    the bluest skies come after a storm
    and the world is greenest after the snow melts
    if you never know sorrow or pain, you cant appreciate the good times
  5. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    That's one thing I thank my dad for I started working 40 hrs a week at 15 shoveling horse stable's and throwing hay. Plus going to school and graduated. I owe my sucess and were Im at today to my dad for teaching and making me a man. Not giving or handing me things for free I worked for it and respected it more than my friends did what they had.
    But honestly My favorite job and I miss it the worst was shoveling stable's, throwing hay, working with the horses and cattle. Things seemed simpler and at the end of the day it was a different kind of tired and you felt good about the day's work just seting under the shade tree drinking beer and telling lie's with your friend's.
  6. Opinionated

    Opinionated Monkey+

    I've got $20 that says if you stopped the average OWS protester on the street and recited this to them:

    They not only wouldn't have a clue about any of them, they would lose interest before you got to the bottom of it.

    Who's fault that is, is debatable for certain. But I've seen no sign of awareness in any of the people interviewed that would lead me to believe they are up on this stuff . . . or much give a hoot about it.

    Of course, if there was a military draft, that would be differrent.

    . . .said as I drift off daydreaming about how much good three years in the service would do these kids . . . :oops:
  7. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    You would probably win that 20 bucks.
    but the idea that 3 yrs in service is going to fix it.
    ah, Not so much.

    I'm just afraid that we are too set in our ways to see the world through their eyes.
  8. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    Wars are fought by the middle class not the poor. Actually if you look up the demographics of the military it is mostly a middle class institution. The whole story of the military taking advantage of impoverish kids is just that, a story. Yes some cases are probably true but not the majority of the military...

    The military helped give me good direction in life and i bet it could help do the same for some of these OWS guys.
    tacmotusn, oldawg, dragonfly and 6 others like this.
  9. Nutpantz

    Nutpantz Monkey+

    I've got $20 that says 9 out of 10 people you stop on the street could not tell you 3 of the years any of that happened. And 1 in five would have no idea what you were talking about at all.
    Mandatory military service never helped the russians, other than the ones in power.
  10. Nutpantz

    Nutpantz Monkey+

    american wars are fought by the middle class, most of the people they are fighting are the poor.
    The poor is a great place to recruit when you don't give anyone a choice.
    Dictators know that, as well as politicians.but that's because america has more middle class and dictators have more poor.
  11. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    I didn't know. Us state educated youth know WW2, something about a war in Vietnam, and the gulf war.
  12. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Back in the early 70s in high school, I think I was the ONLY kid who knew where the two Vietnams were..... and this DURING the Vietnam War! But then, I was a Library Rat, got in good with the head librarian, and read the news and history. The vast majority of fellow students were as clueless as these OWS fools.
    Things have only gotten worse in the last three decades.
  13. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

  14. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    Being in the 30-something age group, my thoughts are as follows:

    A: My mother got me into Red Green many years ago.

    B: I don't believe the OWS protestors have any more logic behind them than the England protestors did. I believe they're just spoiled screw-ups, wanting to throw hissyfits at anything they're told to. And if I had $20 to bet, I'd bet it on the fact they are more interested in who's gonna win American Idol then where their next meal is coming from.
  15. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    It does not matter how valid a point you make with this, the very ones it is pointed at will raise the table stakes with unrelated points and syllogisms. That is the beauty of a paradigm and if most had bothered to look the word up, they probably would have let the thought lay. JMHO
  16. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    Here in sunny America, our POOREST are rich by the standards of the majority of Africans, Asians and South Americans. I saw this first hand in my Navy travels.
    Consider this.... the poorest Americans have TV's and have never had to suffer with something as gauche as "Black&White". Americans born thirty or less years ago have NEVER known a time when they didn't have access to clear telephone service, to computers, to video games, to movies they can buy or download, to any music they care to hear. Virtually any American can own a car, a nice stereo, Air Conditioning and Heat!
    The poorest seldom miss a meal, and with the easy proponderance of Welfare and foodstamps (and those nifty swipe cards) any poor can eat like an African Dictator.
    No American is denied at least the most basic life-saving medical care - the Hospitals cannot turn them away.

    We have so very much, and yet these OWS dingbats always want MORE...... Sorry, I simply have no pity for them. Jobs may be scarce in a lot of places, but they can be found - sometimes one needs to settle for minimum wage for a time, instead of the nice fifty-grand-a-year management position that the college said one was 'qualified' for.
    Think how many resumes and applications one OWSer could put around in those two months, instead of squatting in well-supplied squalor in the park......
  17. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    The way I see it is that every generation alive is now a entitlement generation. No way we can survive in our currrent state.
  18. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    When I was young, my parents sound just like we do talking about our generation. I am not going to become my father.
  19. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama Monkey++

    Its sort of like this.
    Government pays hosipatal for a person to be born
    Government provides formulia for baby to survive.
    Government provides education if the baby survives.
    Government feeds the post graduate because thaey cant find a job.
    Government then provides a living after if the baby survives to 65.

    Governement at one time was the people, people provided the government, now the government provides for the people, no one really knows how much longer a failed system can last, but most realize not much longer.
    Alpha Dog likes this.
  20. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    A lot of the same people that are condemning these young, albeit misguided folks, for protesting and taking a stand, are talking about taking up arms against the .gov for a means of addressing their own set of grievances. And I might add, effectively shutting down the system for all of us. Now, if i am the only man here that sees the paradox in this, then something is seriously wrong with my reasoning abilities.
    VisuTrac and RightHand like this.
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