Things that make you go HUM on a rainy day.

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by M118LR, May 24, 2017.


  1. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    Does a cartridges optimal performance determine what label applies to barrel length?

    I.E.:
    A 24 inch barreled bolt action .223 Remington is called a rifle.
    A 20 inch barreled bolt action .223 Remington is called a carbine.
    A 20 inch barreled 5.56 AR is called a rifle.
    A 16 inch barreled 5.56 AR is called a carbine.
    (And I called an 11 inch barreled 5.56 full auto "Cecilia") LOL.

    So what gives with the rifle/carbine labels when the potential for both the .223 Remington and 5.56 are basically identical?
     
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  2. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    To me, and probably me only, any rifle with a barrel of 18" or less is a carbine.
    Wonder if your Cecilia is related to our "Door Greeter". As in, "Hon do know that truck coming up the drive?" "No, but I've got the Door Greeter with me."
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
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  3. M118LR

    M118LR Caution: Does not play well with others.

    Even at 18 inches, isn't a 16 inch AK called a rifle?
     
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  4. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    It is, and I can't honestly answer your question. To me the AK is a carbine length rifle. One of the many reasons that it has been so well received the world over.
    I've never quite understood why Mikhail and his bosses went with that length especially the stock/length of pull. The average Russian is what, 5'7-5'9 maybe? I know I'm 5'10 and the AK seems tiny to me.
     
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  5. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    Carbine apparently isn't determined by barrel length, but by an ambiguous weight called "light", which explains the confusion. I'd always thought it was any rifle with a barrel shorter than 20".

    carbine

    [kahr-been, -bahyn]
    noun
    1.a light, gas-operated semiautomatic rifle.
    2.(formerly) a short rifle used in the cavalry.
     
  6. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    It is a "light" or shortened version of a full sized rifle of the same type. In the musket days, the term fusil applied (based on smaller civilian guns). Hence, some British units being called Fusiliers, generally being units that had a primary job other than line infantry...kinda like an M1 carbine idea.
     
  7. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    What about my Saddle Ring Carbine in 30-30 that is a Lever Action???
     
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  8. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Full sized rifle had 24-26" barrels? Plus the "carbines" from winchester encompassed both a comfortable size for horseback use and a buttstock style that was more conducive to shouldering from the saddle.
     
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  9. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    I think that falls under definition number 2: a short rifle used in the cavalry.

    Personally to me any small lightweight rifle qualifies.
     
  10. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    How then do you classify a Krag carbine? Heavy little bugger she be. (And glad she be, 'cause she kicks like a mule.)
     
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  11. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    I guess one man's carbine is another man's bazooka...
     
  12. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    :lol:
     
  13. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Here the waters get muddy, This is considered a Carbine by the U.S. Army! Barrel length is 26 1/2 inches, and is actually more accurate then the full length rifle of 31 inches!
    -verkauft-revolvergewehr-colt-model-1855-sporting-rifle-gekurzte-full-stock-rifle-.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
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  14. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Metal weldin' monkey

    The US Army is wrong-what's new about that?:D
     
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  15. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    I personally always considered a Carbine as any thing under 24 inches, and usually having a lighter build then a "Normal" rifle!
    I don't believe there is any one standard to base any of this off of, but.......
    One of the sweetest, slickest, and FASTEST Carbines ever made! MK-4 SMLE Jungle Carbine.
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu RIP 4/19/2018

    No.....no.....a bazooka carbine is a LAW rocket launcher!!! o_O
     
  17. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    While he may have been wrong, an old gunny sergeant said a rile had a bayonet and a carbine didn't, when I was in basic. Worked for the M1, Springfields, etc that we had.
     
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  18. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    I call bubblegum
    upload_2017-5-24_14-38-25.
     
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  19. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Not to punch holes in the that Gunny's idea, but almost every fighting rifle ( Even Carbines) ever made had provisions for fixing a bayonet!
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Right or wrong, a few weeks into basic I sure as He** didn't try to correct him.
     
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