Think like a Green Beret vs. Doomsday Prepper

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Motomom34, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    This article is a few years old but an interesting read. The author IMO took liberties to prove his point. I think having Tommy the Tool in an underground BOL with children was losing scenario from the beginning. The author also makes it sound easy to organize a neighborhood (400 people he says) which is not that easy. Most people will be in a panic so implanting the Green Beret way of doing things would be quite a task so establishing relationships prior to an event would be vital.

    Here is the article:
    Why You Should Think Like A Green Beret Instead Of A Doomsday Prepper

    February 25, 2013 | Sobert Gummer
    Please follow link for the rest of the article: Why You Should Think Like A Green Beret Instead Of A Doomsday Prepper
    GOG, Gator 45/70, Yard Dart and 2 others like this.
  2. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    He forgot the one most important part, that being overcoming all the type "A" personalities in the group and the second most important part being the quelling of rampant hysteria within the group that they are all going to die. That will be a monumental task for anyone, Green Beret or Not.
    Yard Dart, Oltymer, Itchba and 3 others like this.
  3. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    Both scenarios have their pros and cons. If your area is not mostly people who will work together then you need to bug out, and during SHTF newcomers, even those that own land will at a minimum be treated with suspicion. My plan incorporates both - relocation to an area that will weather adversity better than most, become an established member of the community through various volunteer activities particularly emergency services, but plan a small BOL where I can retreat to in order to patch up, rest a bit, rearm and go back after whatever sunzaitches caused me to bolt.
    Gator 45/70, Dont, Sgt Nambu and 2 others like this.
  4. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Like I said, the author paints a pretty picture to support his theory. Organizing 400 people boggles my mind, that is a lot of people with ideas, panicking plus most of them will be starving in a week. Then what? I did like his idea of the school as a central operational place. Actually schools are often used as command centers and people do tend to gather at city buildings or schools.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  5. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    If the SHTF life shall be very bleak your definition of surviving will radically change Sure the first couple years may be ok but long term it will literally will be dog eat dog have no fantasies about it
    Gator 45/70 and Dunerunner like this.
  6. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    You can only organize them if you start long before you need them to be organized and they want to be organized. Even then, don't expect anything close to full cooperation when the SHTF. People will look after their families first, and that goes beyond the local area. If mom or your kids are hundreds of miles away expect some to disappear for a while or permanently, and that includes law enforcement, fire fighters, National Guard, etc..

    One of the reasons I'm not happy with my current AO is that I'm 500' away from the college campus sized high school and less than a mile from a Community College where DHS and FEMA will likely set up shop for my area. Not interested in being this close to them while at the same time would be happy to assist emergency services. Too close may well equal too many restrictions "for my own good".
  7. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    My thoughts were around this....

    You start to get folks organized before the "event" occurs and a few interested and totally dependent folks take heed and join up. I conservatively would say about 5% will participate. Half of them will drop out within 30 days, citing other obligations or loss of interest (translated that means it is too much work or requires them to actually do something).

    What you end up with is the remaining folks you sought to organize knowing where to go when the SHTF. They will all come to your door. Didn't anybody watch the old Twilight Zone??

    Gator 45/70, Motomom34, Dont and 2 others like this.
  8. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey Site Supporter+++

    Moving into an area that one had researched and have chosen as a likely BOL, and then moving in permanently have the benefits of becoming much more intimately familiar with the area and those that inhabit it. More importantly, it allows the inhabitants to become familiar with you!

    Anyone with an idea of moving out to the country and immediately being excepted by the locals would be deluding themselves. The locals are to familiar with folks moving in with ideas of living off the land, starting a farm and living self sufficiently, or those that want to use the secluded area to cook meth.

    Then there are the children that are dragged out to the "wilderness" without the conveniences of the urban life. Some turn to theft from the locals. Locals will not thank you for that and may exert pressure on you to relocate and have YOU pegged for a liability post SHTF.

    One needs to locate where the locals gather for coffee in the morning or evening and catch up with the local gossip. Sitting, sipping coffee or a cold one, reading a paper close by the locals and listening to the conversation will allow them to become familiar with your presence. And soon enough you will find yourself joining into those conversations. Op Sec is a rule for most of them, just as it is for us here. They do not want to know about your prep's nor of all the firearms you have. Basically, and first of all, they want to know if you can take care of yourself. Second, they want to know if you are a threat to them.

    Being a local, now, I have seen some move in, dragging their baggage with them, be it political, legal, or social, and not last but a couple years. They did not fit in with the local identity.
  9. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    Organizing 400 people, most of which will not last 3 months will quickly turn into herding cats, which will then devolve into people eating each other.
    I'm pretty sure the rule of avoiding large groups of people applies here for all the reasons we can think of.
    Gator 45/70, Motomom34, Dont and 3 others like this.
  10. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    Of those 400 probably 350 would need culled out to have anything resembling efficient, safe and secure. Hate to say it but there is one hell of a lot of total incompetent dead weight in society now days. I know I am not going to be inclined to help those who bring nothing in the way of applicable skills to contribute to the overall good of the camp. Hell just look at society now every town and city has a entire segment dedicated to living off the work of others, even thought they are largely physically fit and capable of providing for themselves. That crap just would not fly in a post SHTF world.
    44044, Motomom34, Seawolf1090 and 4 others like this.
  11. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Okay...I haven't read the article and it is late Thursday night but I felt I needed to comment immediately...

    Look, I am in the pristine area for preppers, bug-outs, survivalists, etc..,(I think @Don't is also) and that is Northern Idaho. I came here with 3 suitcases, 2 cats and 1 wife almost 3 years ago. Why? Because after a lifetime abroad (overseas ~40yrs) I wanted normality. What does that mean? I wanted a place where gangs didn't make the normal man fear. Where logic and reason and fact (especially fact) reign for cause and effect. I wanted a place where people were pragmatic and didn't believe what they were spoon fed. I guess I wanted old America, like my childhood, when I left... But, it doesn't exist. It is good here. And, the people are nice but... people now don't even want to know you, never mine 400 of them get behind you. What a load of tripe! One of the problems with America is this individuality crap. Everybody is right! Everybody is correct! Everybody can go their own way. Except it will not work when the lights go out... Reading nonsense like this reminds me that the world is a nightmare waiting to happen. I like many people here on the forum even though we have not had the opportunity to share a beer or a smile so please don't believe everything you read.

    Yeah, what a joke, a serious situation and all 400 people come together... In this country?!?! Not going to happen... I have 39 homes here on my road, each with a minimum 5 acres or more, and I can assure you, that no matter what I did, I could not get half of them to come together in a crisis. I mean, think about it. Is the crisis real? Maybe the government is right? Maybe I should do this and not that? How much is that going to cost, maybe if I keep my mouth shut they will buy it?

    We, ladies and gentlemen, are all on our own - as is correct and normal. And, we should continue to plan that way...I am sure there are communities but most are blood or longevity connected so even in Northern Idaho (the prepper hub? the Citadel of America?) plan for the worse and hope for the best. And, remember, no one gave you anything in good times so why should/would they give you in bad times? I rest my case and will read, fully, the article in the morning...but I consider it tripe already. Now, back to the whiskey glass...
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
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  12. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Come to Bush Alaska... We know our neighbors, and we trust most of them with our lives... We help each other, whenever it is needed, because we know that it could be us, next time... Those that do not feel similar, do not last long out here, because you can not make it on your own... with no help... Many have tried, and few if any make it, long term... just the way it is, out here...
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  13. Downunder

    Downunder Monkey

    Anyone got any evidence that the Green Beret system works?

    The montagnards in Vietnam might be the best example, and I'm not sure that was a complete success either.
    Motomom34 likes this.
  14. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    The article's author's nom de plume says it all SoBert Gummer (sic)

    I get Mr 'Gummer's' point, that a communal approach to surviving in a WROL environment has its benefits and advantages; But he makes his argument in an intellectually dishonest way, by creating a false dichotomy, i.e. comparing and contrasting the worst stereotype of the doomsday prepper ('lone wolf' survivalist,) with his idea of paramilitary green beret / HOA activist. There are a number of tried and proven models for communal security/self defence that could be used....The Israeli Kibbutz for one. Kibbutz - Wikipedia,

    Trying to run one's community, like one is the leader of a SF A Team, doesn't strike me as a feasible way of navigating a WROL event with a whole bunch of people with widely varying competencies, capabilities, motivations; and as likely, with widely different notions of what they are able to do or prepared to do about the situation.

    Running the show like a HOA on steroids also doesn't seem to be a very promising model to pursue either.

    By all means, discretely work with like minded folk to form a coalition of the willing, and committed, and expand upon that, bit by bit.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  15. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I would like to think my street would come together in a crisis as described in the article, I'm pretty sure that this has perhaps a 30 day limit until most went their own way.
    Another spot we have 100 miles away in the country has great soil and old timers who know how to work it, Plus I'm related to half the parish!
    Living off purely hunting will only get you starving to death since everyone and his brother will be eating ever animal in sight.
    Which would you choose long term?
    Motomom34 likes this.
  16. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I suppose it's worth pointing out that this 400 number is not by any means magical. It's also worth pointing out that training up a diverse HOA (for example) for a generalized crisis is wildly different from training up a tribe for a specific goal. The Montagnards were an existing tribe, very used to working together on common projects, bound by blood and LONG association. The Green Berets simply provided them a goal, and the means to achieve it.
    A Forgotten Chapter of Vietnam: How an Indigenous Tribe Won the Admiration of the Green Berets—and Lost Everything Else

    Methinks little if any thought or historical perspective went into that essay.
  17. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    I would like to POINT OUT, that as a Green Beret, this fellow would live, either in OnBase Housing, or Off Base in a neighborhood loaded with Fellow Service Folks like himself.... That makes a GIANT difference, than the rest of the WORLD, when it comes to building up a Group.... The only folks I can think of that would have such a strong sense of community would be a very tight Church Group located in a small area.... Like those Mormons have, in Utah, Northern Aridzonia, and SE Idaho.... They have a structure of Command & Control already builtIn to the community....
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  18. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    IIRC the Montagnards hated the North Vietnamese because of the murder, rape and pillaging of their villages so it was quite easy to turn them to our side, arm and train them.

    I have given some thought recently to getting involved with the wife's Russian Orthodox church. It is composed of mostly Ukraine, Russian, and Serbian folks who still do all the things they had to do to survive in those countries like gardens, canning, etc... They are quite a strong community. The problem is it is too far away from here to be of any help when the time comes...nice people but useless in an emergency due to time and distance, sort of like the police here.

    No, I think if something serious happens then there will be a few here who will come together and those few will be in better shape than the others, be an example, and hopefully this will lead to others joining the group. For now, plan and prep, keep one's head down and stay below the radar. I have all the basics but still have things that I need, HF radio, generators, solar panels - but one step at a time.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  19. Oltymer

    Oltymer Monkey++

    The leader of a hungry group of people will often find themselves being served as supper.
  20. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    Wouldn't a Green Beret just call in an airstrike?
    Thunder5Ranch likes this.
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