This IS a police state sheeple!

I see your point. Everyone seems to throw out "equip". Well, part of fighting fire with fire is the arms... then the body armor... next thing you know, they look like me when responding to a warrant. I can't say I blame them. Doing the same apprehension job, just on another continent, while facing similar bad guys... I would equip the same. The funny part of this argument is as I indicated earlier- some say toting assault rifles is a no-no, but they want that same courtesy. Life doesn't work like that.

As for the militarization, there is little difference if you are comparing the US military to the police. The jobs are exactly the same in a lot more ways than not. A small example using IZ-
One might have to come from a nasty situation where adrenaline is high (amber/red) to a key leader engagement (amber/green). Having the ability to treat that key leader as a member of IZ society and turn it right back up to amber/red when you leave is a tough skill. Unfortunately, people don't have on/off switches. Respecting gun rights- something that is enforced in IZ. The rights are different, but one-AK owners are not in violation and were treated with dignity and respect they deserve. 90% are just trying to keep their family safe (sound familiar). Rules of engagement are absolutley the same- Protection of life is the key. CCWs live by the same mentality and nothing different should be required of LEOs or .mils. Warrants are needed in IZ. A lot of people don't know or understand this. Iraqi courts handle prosecution and their rules apply. The court system often lets the people out that shouldn't (just like in the US). Evidence collection is the same- fingerprints, DNA, and all the exploitation with it. Everyone is treated as a suspect until everything is sorted out. The reason is clear- our safety. The bad guys don't come with labels. Just like the link about the Dickson LEO, you never know.

LEO training and .mil training are merging out of necessity- criminals in the US are armed like never before and war is more like domestic police operations. Does anyone want to be treated like a criminal? No, especially if they are innocent. If you can't understand what it's like to walk around with a target on your back, it sucks. It's nerve wrecking and can, but not always, create a bad attitude. The longer it goes on, the worse it gets. That's simply the psychology of the matter (again, read Grossman).

My caveat- LEOs should treat everyone with the same respect and level of caution. I realize that this is not the case 100% of the time. Neither is it the case in any other profession. Humans are just that. I meet at least one person a day that just needs the snot beat out of them- that is life. I don't draw generalizations at work based on those few. LEOs have a unique customer service relationship, though. As such, they should be reprimanded for bad behavior. When you can't tell the guppies from the sharks, its time for a vacation. I don't think there should be stigma associated with it. Its just time for a breather. I have gotten to that point before. Blown up twice inside of two weeks, I'd rather put bullets in people than talk to em'. I took a break. Bad apples outside of those circumstances should be punished harsh for going off the reservation. See that inside yourself and take appropriate action before it ends in more LA riots.

Ghrit, TikKa- I think you are both right on the border. Needs fixin'.

 

Our borders have been open for years.

As I am not a Native American; I would never support no immigration or isolationism .
Closing our borders means closing them to those we would not admit and those who would ignore our immigration laws. I work with legal immigrants (India, Mexico, Brazil, Romania, Germany, England etc) who contribute greatly and are a self supporting. They want to be working middle class Americans.

As it was Jefferson's actions which are immortalized in "the shores of Tripoli" there is no disputing Jefferson's actions.

 

I was going about this the wrong way, and Al, I apologize for saying inflammatory things about the police, they are men doing their jobs the way there are trained.

I don't think we can detach a discussion about the Patriot Act from a talk about Police Statehood, anymore than we can detach detention rates or militarization from this discussion.

The Patriot Act and our war on terror and our war on drugs are huge causes in the detention rates and militarization. Spying on your own citizens seems like a good starting point for beginning a Police State. Removal of their rights that protect them from security personnel also seems like a good starting point.

You say we need well armed security personnel because the world is getting worse, and since in a Police State, security personnel are just another arm of the State, it's the policies of the State that cause the necessity for increasingly stronger and more well armed security personnel. Also, you cannot completely separate the Elite from the Police State, because the Police State is controlled and protects the Elite, which you can see happening.

The policies of the state created the anger and desperation in this country when it empowered the elite, and took away power from the population. They are creating a generation of homegrown terrorists by this act. It's no longer Muslims, now it's all groups, they're angry with their government, everyone is! So, we need more Security to protect us and find these terrorists before they hurt anyone.

The policies of the state created the problem we have with drug wars and terrorists. The policies of the State, and as recent events demonstrated, the State itself arms the people we need increasing security from, thus, justifying more security.

So they cause a problem, and now their way out is LESS RIGHTS, MORE SECURITY. THAT'S A POLICE STATE!

 

We saw the same thing in the recent Mumbai, Indian terror hit. The Indian Police had antiquated Brit .303 Enfield rifles, and complained they weren't sufficient for the task. Now they are gearing up with military Battle Rifles.
Again, training would have helped tremendouly! That old Enfield, equipped with a scope, would have played Old Harry with the Tangos, HAD THEY BEEN PROPERLY USED.
Most of those cops there had been given virtually NO wetfire training.
I have met cops here, at our public range, who really needed better training. Some only shoot their duty weapons when qualification time rolls around. They consider it only a 'tool' of their job, and have no interest in shooting any other time. The lack of training tells, when we see reports of dozens of rounds fired by multiple cops, and the perp getting just a few hits. Where are all those other rounds GOING!? I'd hate to be in the apartment or in a car downrange........
I support our police. I see this as mainly issues of bad management and lack of interest in providing better training. And that should include better training in how to interact witht he public - as a protector and public servant, NOT as a heavy-handed authoritarian thug.