Tim Cook Opposes Order for Apple to Unlock iPhone

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Garand69, Feb 17, 2016.


  1. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    We all have power. We can raise our children or abuse them. We can tend our animals and pets or abuse them. We have the power to abuse the beauty of nature with trash.
    The Pitts barked which means the deer are at the feeder. I have an AR by the door so I can kill them.

    Anytime there is power it can be abused. As Juvenal said Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
     
  2. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    That is not quite what I meant. I mean that as long as there is the potential to abuse power, there will be those who will, if given the chance.
     
    Garand69 likes this.
  3. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    Not if its done with the feds present.
     
  4. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    It can't be done with the feds present, they must be in charge of the evidence. They can not just take your word for it. Nor can you hide the process.
    It goes in grass and comes out milk, but without the cow, you can't prove the process.
     
  5. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    When the cops send in blood work for a DUI they dont own the machine it goes to a lab.

    If you are a LEO or a Atty, then I might agree with you, if not I would argue my point.
    It looks like they have done this before....
    Apple Unlocked iPhones for the Feds 70 Times Before
     
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    That was BEFORE, the new IOS Version running on the iPhone5 phones... New Technology specifically designed to NOT allow Brute Forcing of the LogIn, and Encryption....
     
  7. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Nope, just half the family are cops. Only three are lawyers, and none of those are me.
    You are not talking about blood work through a controlled lab. (It will be locked down and certified under controlled conditions. And the IS a chain of custody on all samples. IF not, it can not be USED AS EVIDENCE ).
    Blood work is all about chemistry and can be challenged by chemistry.
    This unlock and transcribe business can not be challenged, or even examined. It is strictly a matter of faith, because they will not give up the process.
    What IS that data? It is more than just the recorded info, it is also the method of storage, the encription, and the method of retrieval. It is the location, and the size of the packet, the GPS data, the contacts, and the duration. (In short...metadata).
    This in turn opens doors into other people's privacy, and from them to all Thier contacts. This can daisy-chain out of control quickly.
    If this kind of intrusion is allowed, anyone YOU KNOW who breaks a law, puts YOUR privacy at risk. (As justifiable cause), just because you have had contact with them.
    It is said that there are only seven points of separation between folks around the world.
     
    AD1 likes this.
  8. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    We agree to disagree. I think Apple should comply and unlock this phone.
     
    T. Riley and Seepalaces like this.
  9. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Then we shall agree to disagree. They should never unlock any phone. Their job is selling them, not policing them.
     
    Seepalaces likes this.
  10. Seepalaces

    Seepalaces Monkey+++

    This!!
     
  11. Grand58742

    Grand58742 Monkey+++

    Yeah they can.

    I've gotten evidence off car computer chips before that was downloaded by the manufacturers techs. As long as I was observing the process, it preserved the chain of evidence.
     
    AD1 and kellory like this.
  12. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    And as long as you understand the process. Otherwise, how would you know what they gave you, was really what you brought them? Preserving the evidence is why that chain exists. If you can't swear that what you delivered, and what they altered are the same, that chain is broken.
     
  13. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    From a reddit comment:
    Tim Cook exposes US Government overreach. • /r/Bitcoin

    You would think that every major American tech giant has a similar incentive as you describe. And yet, it seems as though Google and Microsoft just aren't putting up much of a fight on this.

    Keep in mind that Apple has intentionally (and probably to their own economic detriment) ensured that they stay out of the business of collecting user information. In my opinion, this is based on principles rather than economics. OTOH, the other major players have a conflict of interest. They need to provide devices that are secure enough to satisfy consumers, but insecure enough that they can still collect user data for their own data-centric businesses. The classic example is end-to-end encrypted iMessage vs. encrypted-in-transit Google Hangouts. Apple doesn't want to read your messages, Google really needs to.
     
    Garand69 and hank2222 like this.
  14. William Warren

    William Warren Monkey+++

    Microsoft does so much business with the government that it's going to look at the downside first. That's no surprise: MSFT has always considered, first and foremost, how any action affects its bottom line. Customer privacy is an externality to the Microsoft leaders, and so their decision process is straightforward, in the same way that the company considers "security" to be a public-relations issue.

    Google isn't as dependent on Uncle Sam as Microsoft, but it does need to keep Capitol Hill on its good side:
    • Google's core business is a search engine that can be blocked at any firewall in the chain between my computer and their servers. If the government dictates that government employees and contractors and military and schools can no longer access google.com, they lose so much business that they'd be cutting off their nose to spite their face by defying the FBI.
    • The congress could pass more restrictive copyright laws that would forbid it from caching sites or even scanning them. Ditto for Google's online software reading and creating "proprietary" Microsoft or other companies' file formats.
    Apple is making a savvy business decision by its own lights: the company markets its products to upper-middle-class buyers, and Mr. Cook is, ipso facto, betting that those customers will buy more Apple hardware if they see the firm as standing up to the big bully. That might not be a good long-term approach, but time will tell: I don't think the majority of Internet users have any interest in how much their traffic is sorted and cataloged, let alone "security", since most Internauts don't have any expectation of privacy and are unaware that they have been surrendering to compete strangers a list of their friends, their political affiliations, and their tastes in adult entertainment.

    However, this has nothing to do with an (admittedly sad) tragedy involving firearms. Let's be clear on what's going on here: it has nothing to do with terrorism. Despite what the media hype might make people believe, terrorism is a very rare event - that's why societies such as Israel and Great Britain and France are able to carry on despite occasional mass attacks - and it serves, in this case, only as a convenient excuse to attempt to obtain a hacked IOS for later use in other searches.

    Apple's core customer base has money to spend, and some percentage of their number are storing it in offshore tax havens that the IRS would love to know about. Every time the cop in the woodpile shouts "Terrorism!", he's really shouting "We can't tax that!" The FBI doesn't just want the software, since our trusted-and-true NSA could extract the data with a few minutes on one of their seventh-generation Cray supercomputers: Uncle Sam wants Apple to kowtow and hand it to them on a silver platter, complete with a promise to bow and scrape any time the tax man snaps his fingers in the future.

    William Warren
     
  15. William Warren

    William Warren Monkey+++

    How should I use this key? Is it for sending encrypted messages to the board or to the admins, or for something else?

    William Warren
     
  16. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    WW, All of the above, AND it is the GPG KeySet that is used for the Privacy Canary at the Bottom of each Displayed Page.... If you have this GPG KeySet, you can authenticate the Privacy Canary, which tells you that this site is NOT under any Non-Diclouser Order from the .GOV and has NOT been compromised at the Server. Only @melbo Holds the Private Key of this KeySet, and updates the Canary, monthly...
     
  17. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Some new developments:

    Apple has a master key for the encryption. I didn't know that; then again how could Apple upgrade a phone without it?

    Read more at: Phone Fight with the Government Shows How Apple Misled the Public, by Fred Fleitz, National Review
     
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    It would seem that this Yahoo, is wildly SPECULATING, about things he can only Guess At... He is assuming "Facts, Not in Evidence" in that Apple has a Master Encryption Password... Which really does Not make Sense, from Apples Point of View... If you read the complete History of this controversy, The FBI, has asked Apple to take the HARDWARE, Apart, dig into the GUTS, and figure a way to rewrite portions of the Firmware, to allow the FBI, TO Computer Generate, the Security Code, that unlocks the Memory Encryption, and Operating System, as well as Bypass the internal Timers that that make generating numerous UnLock Codes in succession, without. Triggering the Memory Wipe feature. This nothing more than a "Fishing Expedition" by the FBI to see if the re "Might" be anything on this iPhone, that could be useful, to their Inquiry. If this goes all the way up the FEDERAL court Food Chain, and Apple loses, it will be years from now, and any useful Data will be so OLD, as to make it useless... If Apple prevails, it will be a Massive Win for Privacy, here in the USA... SO far the FBI has not made Public, anything that would suggest, that there is ANYTHING, on the Phone, that would be of NATIONAL SECURITY type information.. It is ALL BS SPECULATION....
     
    kellory likes this.
  19. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    "Apple is better able to access that data than the FBI because it holds a set of keys. Those keys won't unlock the vault, but they do allow it to access and modify the vault's locking mechanism — and to make changes that would allow the FBI to pick the lock on its own."
    Here's why the FBI can't hack an iPhone without Apple's help

    "Again, however, we need to look beyond what is being asked for in the short term to what is likely to follow. In this particular case, the FBI wants Apple to unlock the phone. (Technically, Apple would remove the safeguards and the FBI would unlock the phone, but that’s a semantic argument.) Apple continues to hold the key.

    But it is an extremely short distance from there to arguing that there will be some very time-critical cases where the delay involved in knocking on Apple’s door is too damaging. The classic ‘time-bomber in custody’ scenario. That the FBI needs to hold the key to prevent delay. It still wouldn’t do so without a court order, so where’s the harm? It would simply be cutting out the middleman."
    Opinion: Why an iPhone master key is better than a backdoor, but still too dangerous

    Apple has a key which allows them to access the firmware to be updated if they didn't they could not update it.

    The FBI or anyone does not have any business with Apple's or Android's master key.

    Next, the FBI will want the master key for Google's 2048 or more bit encryption.
    Google finishes 2,048-bit security upgrade for Web privacy
     
    Brokor likes this.
  20. whynot

    whynot Monkey+++

    I am really having a hard time believing that the NSA can't pop the encryption on an IPhone like a zit. Sounds like Hilary needed an iCloud email address rather than a personal server......

    whynot
     
    Tikka likes this.
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