time to ban 3d printers...

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Witch Doctor 01, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

  2. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Yeah, law is on the books already. Please see the US Constitution, Second Amendment for further details.
    oldawg and VisuTrac like this.
  3. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Even the BATFE says you can make your own gun

    Q: Is it legal to assemble a firearm from commercially available parts kits that can be purchased via internet or shotgun news?
    For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCAfor his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.
  4. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    How about making one out of wood laminate, plastic cutting board, sheet metal laminates ...
    way too much information about making your own lower receivers out there.

    Weaponeer Forums: AR Lower--from wood!

  5. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    My only concern, is the making of firearms that can pass metal detectors in airports, and other terrorist targets. I work inline with the runway of an airport. If they crash the plane I have a 50/50 chance (depending upon the wind direction) of having the plane land on my office. I would kinda like to avoid that, if you know what I mean.
  6. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    The likely hood of someone creating a completely undetectable firearm is well nearly nill.
    barrel, springs and especially ammo. maybe a single or derringer might just might make it past, you are not getting a 30 round mag through.

    Remember when everyone freaked out about the plastic pistol that was going to make it on planes? I think they called it a Glock.

    I think more planes crash due to pilot error / wind shear than potential hijackings ever could.

    I guess I don't worry about such things.
    tulianr likes this.
  7. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Visu, you might not worry about it, but those IDIOTS at TSA, will make a Federal Case out of it, and further hijack our Traveling RIGHTS, as well infringe on everything that they think they can get away with.... And THAT is BAD NEWS.....
  8. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I remember a two shot breakdown pistol, that had only two metal parts: the spring, and the firing pin. And this was well before the 9-11 attack. It was off white, and broke down into pieces, you would not recognize as dangerous. It did not need to be durable or have extra capacity, but it could kill you just the same. I don't remember much about it, but i did see photos of it. It might have been a concept gun, but it worked.
  9. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

  10. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    It looks very similar, but i can't recognize it from that angle. That might be the one I am thinking of.
  11. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Well, it's already against the law to create an undetectable firearm.

    US Code Title 18 Section 922(p)
    (p)(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture,
    import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive any
    firearm -
    (A) that, after removal of grips, stocks, and magazines, is not
    as detectable as the Security Exemplar, by walk-through metal
    detectors calibrated and operated to detect the Security
    Exemplar; or
    (B) any major component of which, when subjected to inspection
    by the types of x-ray machines commonly used at airports, does
    not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the
    component. Barium sulfate or other compounds may be used in the
    fabrication of the component.
    (2) For purposes of this subsection -
    (A) the term "firearm" does not include the frame or receiver
    of any such weapon;
    (B) the term "major component" means, with respect to a
    firearm, the barrel, the slide or cylinder, or the frame or
    receiver of the firearm; and
    (C) the term "Security Exemplar" means an object, to be
    fabricated at the direction of the Attorney General, that is -
    (i) constructed of, during the 12-month period beginning on
    the date of the enactment of this subsection, 3.7 ounces of
    material type 17-4 PH stainless steel in a shape resembling a
    handgun; and
    (ii) suitable for testing and calibrating metal detectors:
    Provided, however, That at the close of such 12-month period, and
    at appropriate times thereafter the Attorney General shall
    promulgate regulations to permit the manufacture, importation,
    sale, shipment, delivery, possession, transfer, or receipt of
    firearms previously prohibited under this subparagraph that are
    as detectable as a "Security Exemplar" which contains 3.7 ounces
    of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel, in a shape resembling a
    handgun, or such lesser amount as is detectable in view of
    advances in state-of-the-art developments in weapons detection
  12. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    Great. I'm sure that will stop our neighborhood terrorist, from printing them out by the hundreds, and all deciding to visit the capital on the same flight. Laws are for the lawful, not the outlaws. It's illegal for cons to own guns at all, yet that just slows them down, it doesn't stop them. There is a brisk business in guns from the trunk of a car. What's the difference if it is made of plastic? Less weight...he will get better mileage.
    Laws are reactionary. It requires someone to blaze the path, before a law is proposed and passed to stop them. Laws are reactionary. To the best of my knowledge, all laws are, even health and safety laws. Someone had to do something, others found objectionable, before steps were taken to change said behavior, and /or condition.
    There are even laws that are still on the books, that make little sense, such as drinks must be served with a napkin, or with food on the stove, or with a pickle. There are laws to prevent spitting on the sidewalk (this was because of the spread of Disease) and yet people still get sick. Just because there is a law doesn't mean people will obey it either. How many text and drive? Drink and drive? (i could list common infractions for hours)
    The point is these three-D printers are being marketed for making just about anything, and cheaply, by unskilled labor. They are being marketed for third-world use, for everything from chess pieces, to full sized houses. There is nothing to keep terrorists from printing plastic guns and crashing more planes, except hand searches. I don't like the intrusion, but I see no other way.:(
  13. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Ah-Ha, there in lies the rub. Lawful vs. Unlawful.
    Most citizens will follow the law, others won't.
    Just because a Legally obtained machine CAN make an illegal device doesn't mean we should ban / block it's sale (it's actually too late I'll provide link later in this post) in the name of freedom / security / national interest.

    It's all about intent. If someone tries to create a law making this illegal, well, you might as well ban brake lines, conduit, steel pipe, copper pipe, plumbing fittings, screen, steel wool, ceramics, a huge number of chemicals, plants, matches, lighters, magnesium, etc. because in the wrong hands they could be used to make: Weapons, silencers, poisons and incendiary devices.

    Back in the day, I would have loved to have such a(n affordable) device for prototyping and engineering testing. It would have saved huge dollars making a plastic 3D model without having to set up a machine and start cutting chips. Would I have made an illegal device with it? Nope. Could I have? Yep. Even Jay Leno uses one for good.

    I am not willing to suppress someone right to own or obtain a machine that could be used for good or ill for what i my wrongly perceive as improved security for myself and my family. Giving up a little freedom just isn't worth it because it you'll never get it back.

    Anyway, the genie has been out of the bottle for years anyway. Open Source RepRap or any one of these affordable printers are prime candidates for the home builder.

    For more information regarding 3d printing fall down this rabbit hole.

    Anyway, I say use wax as the build up material, then use the lost wax casting technique and start pouring some metal!
  14. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    I agree, it is too late. And the more I hear about how much of an inconvenience it is to stand in line and get checked for weapons at airports, I cringe. Simply because that is the only way I can see, to prevent a repeat. i want to see them all checked, not a random check, or profiling, or gut instinct.... but i will gladly trade a delay, for the peace of mind that lets me sleep on a plane if I choose to. The problem is complacency, it hasn't happened for a while so it wouldn't happen today. The terrorists are just looking for another way to hit us. Those pat downs at the airport, and the physical searches, are griped about every day, every hour, every minute, yet they work. They pick up the stupid stuff, like the pocket knife I forgot about, but if they catch one shoe bomber, or timed delay/altimeter triggered package, They have done their job.
    So what, it's an inconvenience. I don't really care, and I plan accordingly. I have books recorded on my phone, I can read, or play a game while the line moves. Life is not what it was before....If it was, none of us would feel the need to be here at the Monkey. We prepare for what may happen, what will happen, what could happen. That is what "Prepping " is. Prepping is also defense, and defense is diligence.
    Men don't man the ramparts for the healthful airs, or the evening breeze, they man the walls to watch, and to react, if and when a threat is spotted. But they can not spot, if they do not look. You can not defend once in a while, when you feel like it.
    Will they find all threats? We hope so, but we must plan for failure. The hope is to keep the failures as small as possible. My Sister was covered with dust when the planes hit the buildings, my Brother lost his protege, to the second plane, and my Brother watched it live by satellite link, as the flames washed through his company's sister office, from another office building. I watch the airport property as I drive by for work, and I call in what doesn't look right. Two of the items I called in have been dealt with by the bomb squad. Diligence. It's watching your backtrail, and cover your a$$. That is what we do here. We watch for threat, in intent, products, process, and weapons. Diligence.
    Weapons without thought are useless. just as drugs without knowledge can cause death. What does it matter, if you can shoot a rifle a thousand yards accurately? if your attacker can move upwind and sow dust on the wind?
    What does this have to do with 3D printers? .....It is one more thing to have to plan for, and be defensive against. It is another threat that has joined the rest. A new defense will be required, with greater diligence.
    we defend from Mother Nature, fire, flood, power failure, storm...and there is no mind planning our deaths there, yet people die. We have real thinking people who wish us dead, trying to outthink us, and try again, they have sworn to do so, and yet that is not real enough for most folk (sheeple) to be diligent.

    If this isn't enough of a real threat, then what the hell are we doing here? We prepare, and man the ramparts.
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