TOTM September 2016- Collapse, Addiction and Withdrawal

Discussion in 'Survival Medicine' started by Motomom34, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    There are many degrees of addiction, mild addictions maybe one or two cups of coffee or a few teaspoons of sugar. Or extreme addictions, where an addict drinking pints of alcohol daily, shoots heroin or is doing large amounts of other "hard" drugs. Somewhere in the middle is prescription medication, plus with the rise of electronics, people have developed addictions to devices and e-tox is the detoxification from electronics. Just the loss of life as we knew it will cause some to go into withdrawal.

    • More than 1 in 10 are on SSRI’s (anti-depressants) approximately 41 million.
    • Approximately 22 million people who use ‘illegal drugs’ in the United States.
    • Approximately 7 of 10 Americans take at least one prescription medication.
    • 4.7 million people that are dependent on painkillers in the United States.
    • Approximately 42 million people smoke cigarettes in the U.S.
    • 17.6 million people are alcoholics, while half of all Americans drink alcohol.

    Whether collapse/SHTF happens with a flash of light or a slow strangling of the country, addictions and withdrawals will need to be addressed. Maybe you and yours will not have to deal with this issue but the numbers above show that most of us will have to know how to deal with this topic.

    Addressing chemical based addictions in the group: What is it, how bad is it, did I know about it pre-SHTF, and just how critical IS their skill set that I'm willing to overlook shakes, impaired motor skills, impaired judgement and critical thinking and/or a deceptive personality? A twitchy sniper isn't much use, nor is a swaying, slurring doctor. Is their addiction one that can be dealt with by the group to get them clean? How to handle people who, thru addiction don't pull their own weight post SHFT. What if that person has a critical skill? What are the options and how do you deal with them?
  2. Aeason

    Aeason Monkey

    Never thought of that, good food for thought
  3. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Well, for my 2-bits... The next place I take the truck to load up after the Library is the Liquor Store. I am NOT going into the apocalypse sober! :)
  4. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    When the SHTF and life significantly changes, I wonder if the net effect might not be quite similar to the effects in today's world of changing one's environment in breaking the cycle of addiction. If indeed the effect is quite similar, then breaking habits and substance abuse may be significantly easier than we might otherwise suspect.

    A few substances like heavy alcohol addiction can have fatal results if one just goes cold turkey. However for many, if not most, other drugs one can quit cold. Yeah there may be very significant withdrawal symptoms, mental and physiologically, and pain but a sudden withdrawal process isn't fatal. Then the question is how easily does one remain clean? Might not be as hard or challenging as we may think as Dr. Lee Robins' research with Vietnam heroin addicts suggests. (There is some more recent corroborating research but I couldn't remember the authors or specific context so didn't go look for it.)

    What Vietnam Taught Us About Breaking Bad Habits
    Breaking Bad Habits: How Vietnam War Veterans Broke Their Heroin Addictions

    The original research:

    Enjoy. AT

    Edit: Just occurred to me we had discussed this here a bit before.
    Chronicles of quitting cold turkey | Survival Monkey Forums
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  5. Oltymer

    Oltymer Monkey++

    Addicts are driven by their need for whatever form of addiction they have. Addictions are not just physical ones, but can be mental or spiritual ones too.

    I smoke a pipe, drink coffee, and like my beverage alcohol. To address these issues I have been growing some of my own tobacco over the past 2 years, from germination through the curing process. I've refined the process, learning from my failures, and have it to the point that I can produce my own pipe tobacco. Already saved some money, and the finished product is much stronger than the commercial stuff, so a little goes a long way. I think I'll be able to be completely self sufficient tobacco wise in the coming year.

    I enjoy alcoholic beverages and have been making my own beer, wine, cider, and mead for over 20 years. This is from a survival viewpoint, so I have learned to use natural products to make my own Middle Ages type of hooch avoiding the commercial brew shops along with their products as much as possible. People seem to like it, so I must be doing something right. I grew my first barley last year, and am putting in another crop this year, also have my first hops grown this year for my beer. Wines, ciders, and meads are easier for me than beer, and everything you need comes from nature. I'm a descendant of some respected moonshiners, and in a grid down collapse could turn out some high quality XXX.

    Coffee is one I am just starting to experiment with, but now I have a greenhouse, and it is possible to grow my own coffee bean plants, but that will have to wait until this coming spring. Confederates used roasted chicory and dandelion roots for a coffee tasting beverage, but without the caffeine buzz.

    I can and have gone extended periods of time without using any of these products, and know the effects of withdrawal and how they impact me. Quit you say? Hell no, life is too short and brutal anyways, these just smooth out the path and make everything much more bearable, besides I view them all as gifts from God for mankind, when not abused, just like anything else in this world.

    I am self medicating with the above mentioned products, and am trying to cover the bases. So far, so good, and thank God I have been able to avoid any type of pharmaceutical medication. The above products are prime candidates for barter, at the point of a gun though, as junkies can be unpredictable.
    Sgt Nambu, Tully Mars, 3M-TA3 and 7 others like this.
  6. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

    I have given this much thought the last few years due to the fact that the opioid epidemic has exploded in my AO. For the junkies and tweekers in a collapse situation, the best thing I can foresee for them is that they die from either starvation or simply being killed while trying to steal whatever for their next fix. I see opioid addicts as being unsaveable during a collapse, whether fast or slow.

    For the rest that fall into the alcohol and narcotic addictions, those individuals will have a better chance to go cold turkey and beat their addictions if they simply want to live. There will be plenty that will not be able to and their fates will also befall them ad the opioid addicts above. I realize that this may seem cold hearted, and specially so with loved ones, but realize that they will not hesitate to sell you out or take complete advantage of you love and compassion.

    As for the population on prescription psychotropic meds. They are simply going to have to be treated the same, and if they think life is hard and unbearable now without their xanax, just wait till everything goes sideways. They will simply have to develop a thick emotional skin and simply survive along with the rest of us.

    This monthly topic I have a feeling should be what do we do about our loved ones and family members that fall into the above groups. That is going to have to be dealt with on a case by case basis, but I see these addicts taking you down if you allow your emotions to make your sessions for you. In a true collapse, hard decisions are going to have to be made On a daily basis, making the right ones will be what determines whether you and the rest rest of your family lives or dies.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
  7. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    Try Sam's club or Costco etc. For example Sam's has their Member's Mark store brand of spiced rum that is just as good as Captain Morgan and it's half the price for 1.5 liter bottle. Some store brands are not good but many are actually pretty good and especially when put into a mixed drink often the difference is not significantly discernable.

    True story - maybe 10 years ago I gave a blind sample of some bourbon to a friend/relative who ran in a circle of pols and lawyers who fancied themselves whiskey and bourbon snobs that met periodically near the state capital to talk, smoke cigars and sample some top shelf booze. He smelled, sipped, tasted, etc. and then proclaimed that is was likely Woodford Reserve and sure tasted exactly like it. Told him it was called "Military Special," and bottle said it was distilled in Bardstown, KY and aged for 3 years in reused casks and I bought it at the post PX for $7.00 for a fifth. He was shall we say... stunned.

    Legion489, Tully Mars, 3M-TA3 and 4 others like this.
  8. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    It will not be that easy. If elderly or in bad shape, heart attacks can easily happen
  9. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grudge Monkey

    Coffee, Tea, and Pipe Tobacco are my "addictions" that I have taken a pro active look at for keeping stocked when SHTF and after! I don't grow any of it so I have had to stock up and then bag and seal to have enough around! I got lucky with the Tobacco, I was able to buy it in bulk and also several different blends so I have what I like! Coffee was done the same! Tea, I put the wife in charge of, so she has one hell of a store of it! All in all, We are ok, No other addictions!
    Sgt Nambu, Oltymer and Motomom34 like this.
  10. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Exactly. And it may not be a loved one but the couple next door or the store keeper that owns the only store in town. With those numbers, chances are high, this topic will be one you deal with.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  11. Dont

    Dont Just another old gray Jarhead Monkey Site Supporter+++

    In my Ao, as in some other states, one can only purchase alcohol at a state liquor store.. Could be a good excuse to run over to Montana.. No sales tax and no state run addiction supply centers..
    Withdrawal from an addiction may not be all that simple. Cold Turkey withdrawal from alcohol and some other substances can be life threatening for the addicted.
    How to Care for Patients Who Abuse Alcohol

    SCCM | Nursing Care of Patients with Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome

    Overview of signs and symptoms of withdrawal.

    Withdrawal Syndromes: Practice Essentials, Background, Pathophysiology

    Stopping psychotropic medications..

    Quitting Psychiatric Drugs | Alternative Mental Health
    Motomom34 likes this.
  12. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Come to think of it, since I have been back, I have not tried any liquor from COSTCO or Sam's not because I am a snob but because here in Idaho all liquor is sold only at the State run liquor store. I do drive over to Spokane, WA sometimes to purchase at a place called Total Wine and there I can get a good bottle of scotch that I swear is as good as Laphroaig for ~$30. I will have to see if there is a COSTCO or Sam's near the border because I am not driving too deep into that state as it's as bad or worse now than California! Sad also, because I grew up there, in Seattle, before the Microsoft invasion.
    Seepalaces likes this.
  13. Seepalaces

    Seepalaces Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    I think your numbers on painkillers are really low. I'd guess it's closer to 2 million or 1 in 40ish. Or, are these addicts only?
  14. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    Painkillers are dangerous. When I had to get my wisdom teeth pulled, I didn't go in to get my teeth checked until I had pain that wouldn't let me sleep for 3 nights, and the pain pills they gave me, after a while I realized I was taking them when I didn't need to, so I just quit taking them all together. Ibuprofen is good enough for me now when I *need* it.
  15. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King |RIP 11-4-2017

    One of the more humorous parts of the responses so far is that I would be willing to bet that just about everyone here knows a couple of addicts and are completely unaware that they are addicts. The world is full of high functioning addicts (be it alcohol, opioids or some other substance)...some of whom are also preppers. In most cases of "street drug" addictions, one can assure a supply merely by learning to manufacture their specific substance in some form and stocking seeds or bulk precursors for that purpose.

    Unfortunately, there is another group of "addicts" (of which I am one) who take modern pharmaceuticals that are not addictive per se, but are required on a daily basis to sustain life...heart meds, insulin, etc. The best we can manage is to save a stock "shelf life long" and make the most of it.
  16. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Good catch @Seepalaces, I think I left off a zero. Just tracked down and changed to 4.7 million people that are dependent on painkillers in the United States.

    Thanks See for catching this. [applaud]
    Ganado, Seepalaces and tacmotusn like this.
  17. RouteClearance

    RouteClearance Monkey+++

    I do understand how dangerous some addiction withdraw can be, but as the tittle of this thread states "Collapse" being the main word. We simply will not have those resources or even time to begin to provide for the proper care of these individuals, no matter what they may have(if they die, then take or take over what they had).

    We are going to be spending all of our time just to survive, let alone care for someone that had chosen to put pin holes in their brains to begin with. I over came being a heavy smoker back in 2003. The biggest reason was because of my survival/prepper mindset. I, along with everyone else on this board has seen the writing on the wall. This nation, along with the rest of the world is trying to keep alive an economic system that is simply unsustainable, break your bad habbits and addictions now, NOT AFTER TEOTWAWKI.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  18. Meat

    Meat Monkey+++

    I don't use tobacco or drink alcohol. I drink coffee but can actually take it or leave it. The only thing I can think of that I gotta have or I'll freak is Chapstick. [afro]
    chelloveck and Ganado like this.
  19. Shotgunpapa

    Shotgunpapa Monkey

    I feel your pain i am on heart medicine also and other medicine some I may be able to do with out others i will need but could live for a while with out but would be hard but i will live till i die.
    Ganado likes this.
  20. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    A person in withdrawal will need to keep moving
    Keep them hydrated
    Potassium will help with the muscle cramping- find out what has potassium
    Their blood levels will be all over the board so vitamins and nutrients are important
    If you have someone who is an addict, stockup on Pamprin or Midol for the flu like symptoms, it will give relief

    Two herbs that can aid in withdrawal-
    The Top 10 Detox Herbs

    As I said above,nutrition is important and can help with the healing.
    Foods With Nutritional Benefits That You Should Eat During Recovery
    chelloveck, Ganado and Pax Mentis like this.
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