TOTM-September 2019 Survival Transportation

Discussion in 'Survival Topic of the Month' started by Dunerunner, Sep 1, 2019.

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  1. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Survival Transportation... I have run several scenarios with this one issue always being, well; an issue. First, cars, trucks, ATVs and all other motorized forms of transport will break down and the filters, oil, tires and fuel required for routine operation may not be readily available. Animals such as horses, mules and donkeys require care, feed and routine hoof maintenance to be serviceable as transportation. So, what is the solution? I guess after some time, it might just be your two feet... . And that brings about a slurry of other complications...

    So, let's talk about...

    1. What to stockpile in the way of spares.
    2. What would be the best vehicle, given terrain, economy, parts availability, etc.
    3. Fuel storage.
    4. Scrounging for fuel and the issues surrounding that activity.
    5. Noise issues.. Are you telegraphing the location of your AO?

    And anything else related.
    3M-TA3, Motomom34, snake6264 and 4 others like this.
  2. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    I saw a lot of these in the RoK back in the day. Very popular in China - where every day is post-apocalyptic in nature...

    Rugged, reliable, multi fuel and will work as transpo with a cart or wagon.

    The down side is these tractors are both inedible and do not breed.... unlike oxen or a good draft horse...

    I feature these tractors in two books of the World of the Chernyi series, where the logistics of same were examined in some detail. Small garden tractors, such as the Iron Horse or Gravely are / were made in NA using common engines.

    Iron Horse

    Gravely walk behind.

    Lots of different brands with a US or Honda motors (gas) and some EU diesels,.
  3. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    Gravely is still in business

    EU models of tractor



    These are popular EU brands
    Gator 45/70 and Seepalaces like this.
  4. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    More and more, I am thinking one should have a couple of bicycles around for simply transportation...
  5. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Any meaningful disruption will at best take us back to the 18th century pretty quickly. In the initial phases they will be gas and diesel, then none, then maybe they will re-emerge. I'd plan on such a cycle, but in the end plan on living like the Amish if it's long term.

    There was a great series on PBS that showed moderm people living like settlers in the 1800's. The goal was to see if they could get ready for winter before winter. I don't think any of them were made it. Watching that I came to understand why horse theft and cattle rustline were hanging offenses. The loss of either could very well spell starvation for a typical family. Something to think about.

    I like @DKR 's multi fuel tractor based solution, but be prepared for a long term no fuel system, My plan has always included a bicycle for each person, spare parts, tools, etc.. When I was younger I used to build my own bikes from frame sets. I still prefer simple derailleurs to the automatic ones.

    Eventually though you will run out of replacement parts if industrialization doesn't bounce back. Also make sure your bikes have common components so you can more efficiently cannibalize and take the complexity out of spare parts. At some point all your inner tubes will rot and if somebody isn't making new ones you will need to fashion tubeless tires.

    Ultimately if boils down to feet and horses. Shoes will be a problem since the modern sole materials brea down. Last year I ran across a pair of hiking boots I hadn't worn in a long time and found that the soles had completely rotted out. My ancient Danner Mountain light's I bout around 1980 are still serviceable. If only my feet could still fit in them! Pick foottware that can be resoled. For a boot that means a Norwegian welt or similar. Might be worthwhile to have a chat with your local shoe repair person.
    Motomom34, Gator 45/70 and Dunerunner like this.
  6. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    At one point, my KLR650 dualsport motorcycle was my BO Vehicle. Could go places no 4X4 could, and run the highways too.
    Amazing load capability when suitably modified.
    But now health troubles make me unable to ride a bike.
    So, like it or not, my Dodge minivan is my BO Vehicle, if needs be.
    Low ground clearence and lack of 4X4 limit it.
    Basically, I do not expect to do any BO. I keep well prepped at home. If something really bad happens, I die. I can accept that. But there'll be a pile of the Golden Horde lying around me....
  7. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Make shift tractors are limited in speed and make a fine moving target .
    For a secure facility gardening ,yes by all means .
    Step out side when it is quiet .
    Any sound IS going to attract attention. especially if you've been alone for some time and hungry .
    I have been there.
    Have you ever just watched the horizon for any thing moving ,especially if there has been a sound ?
    Secondly if the weight your hauling is greater than the tool going up hills will be difficult
    and down hill a serious adventure .forget gullies and ditches .
    It takes a lot of calories to keep up with these tools if there is maneuvering to be done.
    In the long run a track vehicle can cover most kinds of terrain even mud and snow better than wheeled vehicles .
    So long as one pays attention to service, little can stop them .
  8. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    speaking of shoes

    These Chinese hand-powered sewing machines are being sold for around 100 USD.

  9. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    tires to shoes, something we used to call Mexican sandals, then Ho Chi Hihn sandals and now... Green sandals.
  10. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Been thinking a lot about this for a while now! I have several rigs that can/would be used for a Bug Out, but it really comes down to the time and conditions of things before deciding which or which combo of rigs would be best used! My 42 Dodge Power Wagon is a serious rig, has massive power and payload capabilities, and with it's trailer, its about perfect. my 46 Willis Jeep CJ2A is another awesome rig ( When I get back to it) reliable, light and nimble and with it's trailer, it can go places quickly and travel distances with great efficiency. My Thiokol Imp is the same size and the jeep, almost the same power and weight, but even more capable of road, and can tow the same trailer making it the ideal when things get really nasty, think deep snow, mud and muck, or soft sand! Has about the same range, despite only being able to travel about 40 mph! For a bigger rig, I have the Tucker Sno-Cat which while slower then all the others, has an unbeatable towing capacity, crazy off road capability, especially in the really nasty conditions, and has an on board payload almost equal to the Power Wagon! We have a pair of Duel Sport motor bikes, that gives us good range, and speed, but limited payload!
    Then there is the Super Cub, fastest of all, but with a limited payload, it's best use is for scouting, and rapid movement, or quick re supply of a hidey hole! It can carry both bikes and about 100 pounds of cargo plus the wife and I, so there is that!
    We also have the Big End dump trailer and Off Road Tractor which could be used to move a massive amount of stuff in one shot, and it has pretty good range with 300 gallons of diesel on board, and I could load my entire fuel stash to make it almost across country on one fueling! It would be a sitting duck as big as it is, but it's also going to take something really big and or very powerful to stop it, think Mad Max!
  11. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    I think BOV and long term survival may be two different solutions. BOV just needs what is available now, long term if what is available then. @Ura-Ki IMO is as covered as you can get.
    Gator 45/70, Dunerunner and Ura-Ki like this.
  12. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    My stuff is pretty much dedicated to the ranch, so it was all set up for year round use! Considdering the amounts of snow for as long as we some times get it, if tou dont have rigs capable of working in snow, your basically shut in for 3 to 7 months! Its also why most roads are hard pack dirt and gravel and not paved! Guys like me would chew it up with our rigs!
    Add in another month on ether end with Mud and muck, and you get the idea! I probably put as many miles on tracks as I do on wheels!
    Motomom34, Gator 45/70, duane and 2 others like this.
  13. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    I keep thining about the steel belt catching the opposite ankle :eek:, still better than bare feet.
    Dunerunner, Gator 45/70 and Ura-Ki like this.
  14. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Here is the Imp!
    Was prety much a basket case when I got it, and replaced pretty much everything on it!
    VW 1.9L turbo Diesel with Ford Ranger T-5 manual trans conversion. stock steering rear end with new steering brakes and adapted wheel brakes from Willwood. new track belts and grousers with side slip pads, new drive sprockets, new suspension system from Six Robblies, ( Torsion axle hubs and links for trailers) new road wheels made by Clark Forklifts and rubber was all done by my local Good Year rubber shop! Weighs in right around 1500 pounds all up no fuel!
    I have CAD files for the chassis/body so a person handy with sheet metal and welding could build one from scratch using all ford or VW running gear, and it could adapt to Volvo easy enough if your in a wintery area where Volvo are well supplied and you like Volvo engines!
    There were all Ford/SAAB powered, some had the Ford/SAAB V-4 and others had the small Ford I-6, so parts are easy to find at the Local NAPA auto parts house if you have a good runner and want to stick with the stock engine and trans! Bonus is the Ford 2.3L engine is a super easy swap with it's 5 speed gear box, which makes these even easier to work on and upgrade if desired
    A buddy of mine did one SAAB FWD Automatic powered and it turned out awesome, but took some creative engineering to pull it off! Makes for a lot more room in the cab!
    Neato thing about these Imps is they are convertibles, you can take the top and doors off super easy an even remove the windshields all in a matter of minutes, so they can fit places a lot of other rigs couldn't ( Like Under or around Locked Forest Service Gates) and are about the same size as a WW-II Jeep! With the VW Turbo Diesel power, fuel range is unequaled, Mine has a pair of tanks in the chassis ether side of the drive shaft with a cross over hose between them and holds 50 gallons of fuel! I can go a few weeks before having to fill it up using if every day! Don't have a millage number, but I would guess around 20 MPG combined, which compared to every other Cat, is really awesome!
  15. Big Ron

    Big Ron Monkey+++

    Horses or mules for local transport? If I found an old dirt bike with a bad engine I would consider an electric motor and a battery pack that could be charged up at home. I think my traveling may about disappear in an SHTF time. It leaves you exposed.
    Motomom34 and Dunerunner like this.
  16. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    Move at night lay up during the daylight hours always keep in mind alernate transportaion my feet have carried me a long way so far
  17. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    Our plan is to bug-in where we are. To get around current plan is bicycle, walk, tractor and (when I get back to the project) a modest size wood gasification unit that I can use with either a 7.2 KW genset to power the shop or go portable with it and fuel my Polaris Ranger ATV. I have several hundred gallons of diesel stored that I can use with an Onan diesel genset or to power the compact tractor but if a long term SHTF situation I’d need to reserve it for the tractor and use wood gas and solar. I am looking to find a PTO operated wood chipper at a good price to make mulch to use around the house (excuse for wife) but also to chip wood for the gasifier.

    While its not currently in my plans, I have thought that for a few mile radius of quiet transport the golf carts with the lift kits and rough terrain mods might be interesting. Coupled with a few solar panels and good charge controller, they should be good for a modest number of years to get around and carry a hundred pounds or a bit better of cargo.

    Like the others that have mentioned the Kawaska KLR650, I too have pondered the 650. However, I am leaning towards the KLR250. It is smaller, lighter, gets double the fuel economy and might a good motor bike to get around quickly in a bigger radius area and is a bit more nimble in wooded areas. If not carrying two people and not going hundreds of miles on a trek, I don’t know that the 650 offers much more for a SHTF scenario than just being much more common which aids in parts availability I suppose. Food for thought.

    Another thought is an ultralight aircraft. Getting high is good for recon or getting from one safe area to another if there are bad folks in the middle. Mine is currently not flying but I have the pilot skills and mechanical skills to get it operational. The main complaint I have with mine is the engine/prop isn’t very quiet. There are some nice electric motors with LiPo batteries that can yield 30+ minutes of stealthy flight time that could be charged by solar. Not in my budget currently but could be in several years.

    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  18. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Retired Curmudgeonly IT Monkey Founding Member

    The KLR250 is a great bike, but it has a high seat height. Shorter riders would have trouble. A better alternative is the Kawasaki Super Sherpa, also a 250, with fatter tires and lower seat height. I've seen them scate right over soft sand and mud that would bog down my heavier KLR650. Yamaha has a good small DualSport bike too.
    These bikes have carburettors, and are easy to maintain and service. Buy parts and supplies online, the stealerships are thieves.
  19. T. Riley

    T. Riley Monkey+++

    I will have to travel about 50 miles from my home to my BOL. If needed, I purchased three fat tire adult bicycles with baskets, three saddle bags, one bicycle trailer, spare chains and tubes. Plus, enough camo paint to repaint them.
    Dunerunner likes this.
  20. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    What power/prop are you using for your Ultralite?
    I may be able to help you get it quiet, I know people round the world and have access to most products, might be able to help you get it going and get it really quiet!
    I was able to cut the engine and prop noise on my SuperCub down to barely audible!
    One thing I have always hated is a unmuffled exhaust on planes, and guys that constantly hold the power at or over max prop speed! Mine is super quiet, making game spotting a real useful asset!
    Gafarmboy, Dunerunner and snake6264 like this.
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