Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Tango3, Nov 25, 2007.
They both pass the 'Wallmart test'.
Every respect except killing power and reliability.
I got tired of humping a M4 around every day all day with it's six magazines for a year. I find it interesting that people who advocate the military getting away from the 5.56 and going back to the 7.62 are usually people who have never carried a weapon for work!
Now that I am older, ammunition is getting heavier. My daughter was making fun of me as I was grunting getting a ammo can full of bulets down the stairs last night.
I carried a 249 and 3-4 drums, and I TOTALLY advocate ditching the 5.56.
And you are a better man than I, I always felt sorry for the gunners, they were always the last ones behind their buddies dragging that lump of crap around. I think there is a better fix for the 5.56 than the 7.62, there is something in between that gives the accuracy of the 5.56 and an intermediate amount of punch that will do the work without adding a lot of weight. Kinda like the .40 is between the 9mm and .45
Kinda like the 6.5 the brits (And others) tried to get us to addopt when we went with the 7.62x51...
-Yea, it sucked.
Edited to add: And I didn't have an A gunner, I had to carry my own spair barrel bag...
(Do you know how much that POC gets in the way and hangs up on stuff?)
No, but I can tell you how much it sucked having that M4, mag holder, bayonet, and other assorted go bag stuff crammed in around me. We had to stuff the rifle between the seat and console with the barrel leaning on the dash, I have a callous on the outside of my right knee from rubbing against it six hours at a wack.
Here's a short story. One night, I was flying goggles and we had just taken off from Kalsu and was just outside the Tac ring when my door came open. On a Blackhawk, when the pilot's door comes open, it will open about four inches and stop, so not a big problem, just come to a hover, close the door and continue on, except when you are flying over bad guy land. I was sitting in the right seat that night, so my weapon was pointed barrel down with the muzzle inside a snap link an my six mag chest rig on the floor under it. When the door come open, I saw my weapon moving, so I reached down instinctively and grabbed it by the barrel just before it went out the door. Seems the chest rig went out the door and I will never figure that one out, the strap must have been wrapped on the weapon somehow and was pulling my weapon with it. I was about two barrel inches from loosing my weapon over no mans land! Learned that night to snap link everything to the seat.
If we ever went down, it would have taken an infantry platoon to get us unstrapped and out of that thing. I just realized that I hijacked the thread, send in the
I agree the AR is my go to. The common weapon thought originally came out of a thread (forgive me if I am mistaken) where we were discussing cache weapons. The MN is cheap, you can afford to have two or three to give out to fellow monkeys if they appear at your house is a state of extreme durress. The MN and the ammo is cheap enough that everyone can own one with ammo, know how to load it, and become familiar with it's action. The reason why we didn't say AR/AK, etc. is that numerous people do not have the funds for an extra AR/AK etc. The MN if lost in a cache, or loaned out, is no big loss. An AR or AK would be for a lot of people. The intent was more to have a rifle that everyone could afford. I tend to think that the true common weapon of the board is going to be the AR. Just about everyone has at least one. However, few have enough to arm others with them. It seems like most of us tend to have an AR, and a .45 (1911/XD/Glock). The MN is more of what we have to give out to friends/family when they need a rifle.
Clear as mud?
Plenty clear, but then I'm a believer. So-
First time range report on MN 91/30 and M44, both recently acquired.
Day topped out about 40, very light breeze, sunshine from the right, range 60 yards. Since this was the first time out with these gals, the proof shot was taken with a heavy coat wrapped over the receiver and about half the barrel, trigger pulled with gloved hand, butt inside the right knee. No troubles, all the rest shoulder fired. Given the temps, no sling, and these old bones, both hold 6 minutes with irons, 5 shot groups prone. I have to sort out the sights a bit, both shoot a mite left. The M44 is reputed to do that if the bayo is folded, which it was. Ammo was 148 gr FMJ Wolf from the local gun peddler, not the least expensive source by a long shot.
Do NOT fear the recoil, these babes are pussycats, much less problem than any 30-06, and WAY less than my Krag. Had a couple other guys shoot them, they had no experience with anything more stout than 223, and they are no longer concerned for my rotator cuff repair or their own possible need for one. But the smoke and flame are moderately impressive, one might say. So is the clang when they hit the 5/8 plate, and the resulting craters are rather spectacular. No point to hanging a target on the plate, two hits on paper destroy the paper, makes good shreds for tinder.
Had some stripper clips, they didn't work well, and I don't yet know why. Loading one at a time, you have to pay attention to get them in order. Rimmed cartridges want to be stacked just so. Done right, feeding is flawless. Done wrong, the first shot does not get taken, the rim jams under the bolt guide.
Somewhere, I saw a note that says take 5 shots and anything following that wants a 2X4 to close the bolt. Not quite, but they do seem to stiffen up as the mag gets used up. You cannot (well, I can't) operate the bolt without taking the rifle off your shoulder. Might be all they need is a bit of slickener on the bolt lugs.
Cheers. Get one or two, the flame is worth it, and after a few rounds of 223, so is the noise.
Here is a hurried 5 shot target, just for s&g from last Saturday. 60 yards out of a dirty barreled 91/30. Sorry, I forgot to resize it first. The five in the paper are russian, the little ones at the top of the pic are 223.
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