Trouble Makers at the Wallstreet Protests

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Avarice, Sep 28, 2011.


  1. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

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  2. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    This media tool unfairly paints ALL 'American Police' with a very broad and dirty brush. It can't be too bloody hard to ID the 'bad' officers and draw proper attention to THEIR wrong-doing.......

    Same as when they paint ALL gun-owners as 'latent criminals'....... a very poorly done 'report'.
     
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  3. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    Same as they paint all protesters as "disorderly and dangerous to society?"

    We shouldn't have the conversation about all cops, some cops, a couple cops. It's a totally different discussion. What did you see in the video? Was it the right thing to do on the part of the police?

    I thought it was well done and deserved by these pigs, and they deserve much worse. Abusing the authority we trust them with. They want to protect the few(Wall Street) from the "fringe and rebellious youth" by pepper-spraying and busting heads of peaceful and orderly protesters.

    The protesters have not given them any reason to be violent at any point during the last couple weeks they've been there. The police might not like people assembling in this manner, but it is well within their rights, and cops should not be able to do something like this and not go to jail like everyone else.
     
  4. Seawolf1090

    Seawolf1090 Adventure Riding Monkey Founding Member

    What I 'saw' was a FEW cops acting very 'uncivily', yay... even illegally. THOSE individuals should be punished for their actions, not the entire national Police community.
    I personally have no pity to spare for these 'protestors' who chose to hold their silly little 'sit in' on the street in front of America's business center. They shouldn't be unfairly abused, sure....... but it's also always risky to get noisy and 'in your face' on another's property.
    There are safer ways to get their dubious point across........
     
  5. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    Give me an example of a safer, more effective way to get their point across?

    They can blog about it from the safety of their home. They can write their congressman. Both of which, totally ineffective, and totally ignorable. Oh, they can hold patriot meetings at their library once a month.

    I don't think they are worried about safe. Force the enemy to show their cards. I think they expect this to happen. Whether or not it should is my point.

    I don't understand how they are silly. They have a problem, the same problems we do (maybe coming from a different viewpoint, but these are intelligent people), so they camp out on a city block for the last few weeks. They talk about the problem, try to get some media attention. It seems reasonable, non violent, but still effective.

    We should be commending them for their non violence and stubborness. It's so much easier to lose control of the situation and throw bricks through a window and have a riot. Instead, they've retained control of the situation, and they haven't lost their temper when faced with unrighteous aggression and persecution.

    What more do you want from them?
     
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  6. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    dubious:
    1. Hesitating or doubting.
    2. Not to be relied upon; suspect.

    I see nothing dubious about their goals or motivations. Self preservation, the welfare of your loved ones, God given freedoms, and righteousness are never dubious. Preserving the rights of the 99% against the persecution of the 1%. How is this dubious?

     
  7. Opinionated

    Opinionated Monkey+

    I agree with you Seawolf - very poorly done hit piece.


    I think it is about time for another stomp party on the Eastern edge of the San Andreas fault, personally . .

    Avarice, you are making some gross assumptions based on very little to NO evidence and in the process destroying any credibility you may be granted by default.

    First one that screams up at me is: "Permit". Was this in fact a permitted demonstration, or was it an illegal assembly?

    Given the venomous statements you are making I have to conclude you have something far more tangible than "I think so" to go on . . .

    "Illegal assembly" in and of itself can legally be broken up by any force necessary to achieve the goal of dispersing the assembly. Up to and including, lethal force. That is the law.

    Not faulting the "pigs" for enforcing the law are you? Of course you must realize that each - individually - swore an oath to do just that. They get paid regularly to do just that. Most certainly when a drive by shooter cruises through your neighborhood spraying everything with gunfire, when your daughter is raped, when your wife is assaulted, when you grandmother is robbed and beaten 3/4 to death on the way home from the market YOU expect them to enforce the law . . . . isn't that the case?


    Just curious. 'gotta admit that I could be waaaaaay wrong here with that last paragraph . . . [dunno]
     
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  8. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Interesting... i wonder what the selected video is not showing?

    Unfortunately if a few protesters get out of line the response is sometimes greater on the part of the LEO's ... i'm not saying that some officers may have acted without proper restraint but i've seen too many video's of "peaceful protesters" throwing rocks and bottles... I guess i just don't belive the free market press to provide an unbiased opinion anymore...
     
  9. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie


    A PERMIT?!? Really? Don't you know your rights?

    So now we need government permission to use our GOD GIVEN INALIENABLE RIGHTS?

    You're going to put peaceful protesters in the same lot as gangbangers and rapists? We should use lethal force for non injury crimes cause that is the law? Lets start killing unapologetic speeders or loiterers.

    You can talk about them enforcing the law, and arresting rapists, but you're kidding yourself. I don't really want to get into that though. That's a whole nother argument. We know where I stand on police.

    They keep coming in, I can't finish a thought.
     
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  10. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    If you go here. https://occupywallst.org/

    They have the same incident from multiple angles. Scroll down to Officer Bologna. That's the name of the one who pepper sprayed the girls. You'll find the videos under that article.

    There is safety with video cameras. That's why the police try to confiscate video cameras as evidence. These people are smart to have multiple cameras everywhere.

    It could be that the protesters are egging the police on, but I haven't heard anything about throwing rocks or bottles. I only believe non corporate press, citizen journalism. Mainstream media only presents the information they want you to have, it doesn't resemble journalism any longer, except on random stories.
     
  11. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

  12. Opinionated

    Opinionated Monkey+

    I know my rights. Probably better than most citizens. I also know the law, and assembling for a protest in NYC without a permit is illegal. As it is in most cities, counties, and states.

    Out here in the real world, we don't get to ignore laws we don't like because we don't like them. We have to work within the system to change them. Sometimes, that can take decades. My advise is to deal with it and stick with it if it is truly important to you.

    In a word; Yes. I am disheartened to realize this seems to be news to you. You should see what the government has done to the second amendment. Especially the government in New Your, Mass. NJ, and California - it is nothing if not obscene.

    Criminal is criminal. Its not me; it is the law of the land but again, in a word: Yes. If that is what the law defines.

    if you don't like that - as I often do not - you may want to consider getting really active in the legislative process. As citizens we have not only that right but that obligation. . . . at least in my opinion.

    Indeed. Misinformed or ignorant. I'll not assert the later because the former is so obvious. As for kidding myself; probably not. You see I help train law enforcement special teams in weapons and tactics. 'been doing that for quite some time now.

    Your opinion(s) are unpopular. Seems like you have two options; get used to it, or inform yourself better. I won't presume to make a recommendation which would be better for you.
    And by all means; have a nice day! (y)
     
  13. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    My feelings about California and the place it belongs (pacific Ocean) is rather well documented. So I agree here.
    Herein lies an issue. Every single American citizen, under Constitutional law - the First Amendment by the way - has the freedom to peaceably assemble and speak their minds. When you force the "assembly" to obtain a permit (a hidden tax and full abrogation of your Constitutional right, because a permit - by definition is permission, and a permit can be withheld) to peaceably assemble, then you are a tool of fascism. No matter how you cut it, every single state in the US has the freedom of speech and assembly incorporated into their first articles.

    No issues with this one.

    Here again - we all have the legal right to peaceably assemble under Federal and state constitutional law! City ordinances that require permits, or city officials that send in the police to disrupt a peaceable assembly of citizens, is an illegal, UN-Constitutional act and these cities, counties, and states should be brought up on charges.

    Perhaps we should all sit back and study the actual rights you have under the Constitution. Frankly I hope New York City and State gets the PANTS sued off of them. A good lawyer for these folks could have it so the victims here would never have to work again, or at least the offending officers will never work in a Law Enforcement position again. Could not happen to a nicer bunch of crooks. I know, I lived there for years.

    I saw the Raw footage of this on MSNBC, so this Mox News garbage is not what my comments are based on, instead this:

    Lawrence O'Donnell Calls Arrest of Wall St. Protesters "Criminal", without Justification - YouTube

    and this
    Occupy Wall Street Peaceful Protestors, Innocent Females Maced By Nazi Cops!!!! - YouTube

    and this
    PEACEFUL FEMALE PROTESTORS PENNED IN THE STREET AND MACED! #OccupyWallStreet - YouTube

    and this
    Cops turn Violent, NYPD drag girl across the street. #OccupyWallStreet - YouTube

    and this
    Occupy Wall Street -- Police Brutality, Arrests, MSM blackout - YouTube

    And this
    Peaceful Protesters harassed, abused, and arrested by NYPD. #usawakeup #OccupyWallStreet - YouTube


    So, if you want to surrender or allow a state to run roughshod over your freedoms, then I beg yo u to remember the words of Samuel Adams:
     
  14. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    I agree people are guaranteed the right to peaceably assemble. There isn't any debate on that subject.

    However, they need to provide basic sanitation (porta-potties) instead of using the storm drains, alley, in between parked cars etc. They also need to either clean up or pay to have the trash and litter cleaned up. I've seen the aftermath of a demonstration in DC; the street smelled worse than a sewer (urine and feces) and trash was all over.

    Congress can make no law hindering the right of the people to peaceably assemble

    Where does it say to use the streets as (very) public restrooms or puke on the floors of a public building?
    I read after the Tea Party demonstration there wasn't any problems or clean up and there were porta-potties. That was what I consider a peaceable assembly.
     
  15. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    I noticed that just about all of the camera's was on officers not much on what the crowd of tree hugger's were doing. Plus you have a large group of protesters and a few police officer's. In that situation the officer's have to do what needs to be done and quick to keep things under control. These people go to these things with the intent to spark trouble and when they get it they are being abused their rights are being violated. I didn't hear citizens screaming about rights when the crowds was looting, burning the city down and pulling people from their vehicles in CA a few years ago. These people go to protest then start spiting on people, cursing and then start to provoke LEO's so they can get a video. Well I've been a LEO 17 years and if a man spits on me they can have this badge because I'm going to give him the video he want's. I have seen hundreds of protests and worked alot of them and most of them you couldn't ask for better class of people they came to get their point across not to provoke unrest. They would even offer us bottles of water and thanked us for being there to help keep the peace. Then other's one has the camera while a few others start blocking sidewalks, road ways or some other to pull LEO in to a confrontation while the man with the video made us look like the bad guy's. Half these people couldn't even tell you what they are there for. You poke a cage dog you get bit and looks like to me they got what they had coming. Just a bunch of Hippies wanting to make the news under the mask of a just cause.
     
  16. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    I agree 99% with what you said. Only thing I find fault with is that The Tea Party has some big donors behind their movement, you can't compare the two movements. They aren't being supplied like they did at the Tea Party. If wealthy donors hadn't paid for them, you'd have seen Tea Partiers crapping on the floor too.

    You need to do what you need to do. NYC should give them some Port-A-Potties so save cleanup costs. Instead they withhold port-a-potties, and they can't buy them because they don't have a "permit". I've pooped all kinds of places, I'd take a toilet over a hole in the ground, or a a parking lot any day. I'm sure the people in question would love Port-A-Potties.
     
  17. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    There is always two sides to every story and this is no exception. The "news" reports on this are clearly slanted to the left and portraying their vision of "peaceful, innocent, protestors". Did some of the police overact? probably, and if so there should be consequences. Did the protestors have a constitutionally guaranteed right to peacefully assemble. Yes. Did some of the protestors cross that line? Probably so. And there should be consequences.

    I don't put a lot of stock in videos by the protestors themselves. They are going to show only their side of the story. And people like Lawrence O'Donnell are clearly biased and will only show what they want you to see.

    So a look at the police reports and other news sources is needed. The police state that the protestors were blocking traffic (don't people have a right to freely travel? What if you exercising your rights interferes with mine?) The netting was being used not to "pen them in" as the protestors claim but to herd them off of the streets and to keep them out of traffic.

    At least one was arrested for assaulting an officer. And I have no proof that it is the case here but it is standard operating procedure for these types of groups to provoke confrontations with police so they can get the media coverage.
    If the police had of done nothing and let them have free reign of the city streets the only coverage this ragtag group could have garnered would have been a brief mention on the local news about the traffic congestion they were causing.
     
  18. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    You sound like a 5 year old! "HE HIT ME FIRST!"

    You're going to give them the video that they want? Listen to yourself. We trust you to be a Peace Keeper, not a thug who gets pissed off by a kid starting trouble. You're going to throw a tantrum because he didn't show respect? You're supposed to be above that. So you throw them on the ground hard enough that he doesn't want to get back up, put your knee in him and throw him into handcuffs. I know you're only human, but we give you training, we give you a gun, we trust you to behave responsibly, and you let your ego be the biggest thing in your utility belt. Shameful.
     
  19. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    Finally, a sane person.

    Don't worry, I'm not calling myself sane.
     
  20. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    Don't know how things are where you are from but no where in my job desciption dose it say I have to allow anyone to beat spit or cause me harm. As for the training you claim to give me thats how I was trained. As for respect, where Im from we are raised to show respect, maybe thats your problem with having the lack of. I give respect to the one's who give's it to me. As for the citizens in my County I am the Deputy they call and ask for, I am the one who has over 90 letters from citizens on what a good officer and how well I do my job. Plus as for you giving me training, a gun, You have given me nothing I worked for my Shield and gun and I have given most of my life to protect those who need it. So there is nothing shameful when it come to me doing my job.
     
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