Trouble Makers at the Wallstreet Protests

Everyone knows where I stand on these issues. There is a right and wrong way, based on our societal norms. Minuteman^ kind of sums up the way I feel on permits. There are very logical reasons why we can't let 10,000 people protest whenever and wherever. Safety and health issues need to be addressed by someone because protest leaders typically don't think through those issues. They tend to think that their grievance is more important than anyone else's rights. The problem here is that the people today don't have the same sensibilities that the Founders lived with.

Please, no crapping in the street.

 

I trust Larry O'donnells opinion as much as i trust Omama with my guns... He's the voice of the liberal left and is student of Patrick Moynahan's school of thought... BUt to each his own... he's been known to do hatchet jobs on conservative political candadites and i guess he's not above much of anything... just my opinioin...

 

OK to be perfectly clear on where I stand with LEO's - some of my oldest, best, and most trusted friends are officers. Local, State, and Federal officers. If not for a medical issue I would have been an officer as well. That being said, I also know there are guidelines and regulations that dictate gatherings. So be it. Understandable and reasonable guidelines are acceptable to control issues - both safety and sanitation - of large gatherings. Caveat: there is some violation of the guidelines and regulations of how the police should act in these instances:

If there were no violations - if the police were acting to secure public safety properly and within the regulations that are set forth to protect the innocent from the police abusing their power, there would not be an investigation.

 

The agencies i was associated with are required to investigate ANY questions of any poetential violations... if they knew that they happened it wouldn't take much of an investigation... just sayen...

 

The fact that there are questions of potential violations and not dismissed out of hand tells me that there is at least some reasonable assertion that the regulations and procedures were violated. The inquiry will reveal, I hope, the truth of the matter one way or another. So I agree, if it happened, it is not going to take much to prove it. If there were not so many videos of these occurrences, this would have been swept under the rug. Hearsay and an officer's word against a civilian's. It has and does happen, daily. Sad, but true.

 

I'm pretty sure that you and I are from different planets. Earth is where I was born and raised.


By the way, just so it is clear; I do not think that a permit should be required. But it (generally) is.

Oh, one last thing, and I apologize for just getting back to this, it's been a busy thread. You never addressed what facts your original venomous diatribe were based on despite being asked directly (and very politely).

I mean . . . I grabbed "permit" out of thin air. I have no more idea than the man in the moon whether these protesters had one or not.

Do you?

Do you know for a fact what was going on before or after the actual filming that has been published?

. . . I'll stop now. My intent is only to get you to think through your decision making process prior to verbally attacking people who would - without hesitation - put their lives on the line to protect you, even while you spit your venom at their eyes.

 

When i said any i meant any including those that are obviously questionable... this is the way that they maintain their objectivity... admittedly ther are some that are based on fact but most are without any basis of fact...

As to the wall street mess i would like to see the camera feed from the street level cameras before i give full creedence to the protester cameras...

I do respect your opinion but my past knolwedge bids me take an exception...

 

Alpha, you're right. I was out of line. This is something I'm impassioned about, and I should not have carried that over into being disrespectful. It usually takes a couple hours to read and regret how I said the things I said. I apologize, you appear to be one of the many good officers in this country.

 

No apology needed I didn't take anything personal. Thats what I like about the Monkey we all have our own opinion and It shows what kind of person you are to voice opinions strong and stand behind them I respect that. On the Monkey when we disagree it sometimes get's heated but we all still family that is what makes this site different than all other's you are allowed to have your opinion and not be pushed away for not agreeing with others.

 

I come from a quaint immigrant town in southern California. Whole different dialogue.

The permit isn't important. I doubt they have one, I can fact check, but it really doesn't matter. Putting your body against the gears is never a machine approved action. NYC, because of self preservation, wants these people to go away, by force if necessary. All I'm questioning is whether or not some of the police officers are using excessive force. I think they are, and obviously with the approval of the Corporatocracy. Did that answer your question cause I'm not sure if I answered your question.

No. According to an above post, they were infringing on another's rights to travel(which they relinquished when they registered to vote and when they applied for a drivers license, same with free assembly, but that's not important for this discussion.) Infringing others rights is a crime. I don't have a problem with the police corralling people up. It was the beatings and the pepper spray I had a problem with. I don't have a problem with the arrests, it was the actions they took while making an arrest. They were blocking a road, it's hardly a violent or injury crime worthy of a beat down. If that is the training, then the training should change.

Again, a whole different dialogue where I'm from. Other Police>Self>Citizens is the general opinion of police here.

Anyways, this protest is just the tip of the iceberg, we all know that.

 

I have several questions, This has been painted as a leftist liberal protest. Since when is ending the Fed a liberal Position? Bringing the troops home? Ending our policy of Nation building? Protesting Wall street? Are not most of if not all Of Obama's cronies Wallstreet? This seems to me to be more in line with my own Libertarian beliefs. I want the Fed to end. I want the wars to end, I want the Nation building to end, I want free trade to end, I want the central Banks to be removed from running our monetary system. I am a Ron Paul supporter not a Liberal. I am a protectionist Conservative not a Neo Con Socialist Republican or Liberal Communist. What I see here in these protests are people demanding the Government return freedom to the people.

So please someone explain to me why is this being painted as a Liberal or leftist protest? Kingfish

 

Michael Moore helping organize the protest?

 

Because it's mostly youthful.

Maybe the thread is being sidetracked by a small event, perhaps we should be talking about the above.

 

I agree King Fish I just think there is a right way to go about it and people go to these protests of a just cause to start trouble. When that happens the reason the people are there loses it's reasoning. These people go to a protest like this one and not saying all was provoked but I've been to enough of these to know that alot probally was provoked for media attention. Now the attention is on look what these officer's did or look at what these protesters did. They come to our town done this and left everyone forget's what the true protester's was there fighting for. I too want less goverment control and I want my freedom back that they have taken from us all. Just think how much more good publicity the cause would have gotten with out the conflict. Believe me when I say this there are alot of LEO's that feel the same way we do, who can't protest because doing so would cost them their jobs. Then they would be replaced by Big Brother's yes men. We are told we can not protest openly because we have to stay neutral to the public. I get in trouble alot because Im straight foward about what I feel the only thing that saves me is, I've been doing it a long time and have the citizens behind me.

 

Oddly enough when the same "brutal JBTs" are at Tea Party demonstrations or marches and there isn't a problem.

 

That so many have accepted this behavior, even condone it because why? You think we have obey laws that serve no purpose except to subjugate a once great nation and yet you still wave your ****ing patriotic (act)_ flags and condemn anyone that would speak out aggressively against it? Shame on you, you ****ing Hobbits. I remember when this board was filled with people that were outraged over what was happening to our liberties and our rights and now it seems to have been taken over with limp-wristed "well, its for our own good" god damned people. So the video reporting didn't meet your high standards of unbiased reporting? Like maybe the the way MSN did the last election? There is a stellar example. Shame on you all for criticizing someone that would point out something that all of you would like to pretend doesn't exist and don't blow any smoke back up my ass about it being necessary or not painting the the whole system with the same brush...it does, like it or not. There are exception, sure, but what you are seeing is becoming the rule and you can blind yourself with a flag draped over your head right up until it is draped over you coffin. Wearing the uniform of our foreign policy enforcement branch and getting shot at for some undefined agenda doesn't make you a patriot, only an automaton.If we don't wake up and demand this **** stop, never mind, I can already see it is too damned late. Time to lock the doors.

 

The above reasons is why I left the military back in 2008. After getting blown up and shot at repeatedly was sure not worth being an automation for Uncle Sam.

As for the protesters, yes, I agree that they were not organized with a clear agenda and strong message, but at least they are doing something, which cannot be said for the rest of this nations sheeple.

 

"Chomsky, Michael Moore, Cornell West, and others to support their cause"

I'll leave supporting the above group and their agenda to others here who find something of merit in their agenda.

However, the good news is this time "now we’re trying to get a compost heap started as well;" on Wall Street...

Is the compost heap on the sidewalk or the in the middle of the street.. LOL

 

So it blaming the automaton the appropriate reaction?

I'm not disagreeing with you about the concept you are conveying. Even a little bit. But I don't think that blaming the fire the neighbor kid set in your shed for being so hot is the right route. I do strongly believe we all (collectively) need to be very careful not to do stuff like that.

Because that will never resolve the problem.


In this particular situation I think it safe to say that were the actions of those automatons far outside the policies and guidelines they were mandated to work under the National Guard would already be on site and a whole boat load of LEOs would be hanging out on Riker's island today.