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TS has HTF...a question, what would you do?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by LondonCalling, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. toemag

    toemag Monkey++

    Then so be it Flunky, but we would all go together, one way or another anyway........

  2. flunky

    flunky Monkey++

    "You know what your problem is, Siggy? You don't understand people." - Freud's mom ;)
  3. toemag

    toemag Monkey++

    Thats the major problem with scenarios and reality, one never quite knows what will happen.

    My survival group will be myself, my wife and my two son's, okay so we let you in to our fold and you are 12 people, shit we just lost the majority vote to decide what we do with our resources.

    No thank you.

    I would rather be wiped out in combat than mugged by my own stupidity.

  4. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    That dose bring up another aspect to it. I know I would be more likely to accept an individual or say a family of 3-4 by FAR than absorbing a larger group of say 10+ particularly unless it was a group I had already been in contact with (group down the road that has done some mutual aid and their place burned to the ground, etc.). I tend figure that it would be a matter that they would be able to be there and help and be helped for some time before they would have full votes, the leader still largely gets veto powers too.

    Brings up an idea for another thread too....
  5. toemag

    toemag Monkey++

    The problem will be with the so called Alpha personality type's, who always need to manage everything, I don't need em, never liked or respected em, as they never did anything worthy of my respect, and probably never will.

    My thoughts are KISS., not perfect but works for me.

  6. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Vote? Who said anything about voting? [taser1] That is for the founding group and its leaders to determine. If the late arrivals can't abide with the group's established modus operandi, off they go. The security question remains, and the new arrivals have to be vetted before the tribe's internal preps and planning is exposed. It would be downright foolish for the tribe's assets to be out in the open.
  7. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    So heres my related thread, http://www.survivalmonkey.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9860

    I thought of something else I wonder about for those who say 'dispatch them on the spot' in this senario. I gather most who have said this expect to be small groups (single family) and wondered, do you plan to totaly close off from locals? I ask because I would expect that after things would settle a bit (heard has thinned and most sheeple have run to gov camps or whatever) that groups left in an area would largely form unions of sorts to help with various things. The type of things that come to mind would be planting/harvest times, building/barn raising type stuff when more hands is a huge benifit, or at the least for situations related to fires and security. If a brush fire gets going and each family in the area works alone then most likely ALL get burned out, if a group of say 25-50 raiders starts hitting groups in the area and everyone stays to them selves then the raiders take out one small family at a time untill the area is picked clean, 50 to 6 just isnt good odds.

    So do you plan to totaly shut your self off to such possibilities of mutual aid type things as well as trade with other local groups/families that have made it through and if not then please clarify just how 'visitors' at the gate would be handled. 'Dispatch them on the spot' leads me to the idea they would not be warned off or anything else and anyone outside the family would simply be shot on sight. If thats the case, then dose that apply to neighbors/locals and if not how will you know the difference between their relatives you havent met that joined their group, locals you may not have known before and such vs refugees?
    Yard Dart likes this.
  8. toemag

    toemag Monkey++

    My 4 person tribe is kinda small if you catch my drift, that's why I have a SOP that is stranger unfriendly. Those Alpha type's don't listen really well, and two adults are overwhelmed in no time at all either through duress (knife at the throat of children), or other means.

  9. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    My imediate group is similar in size (4 now with 2 leaving soon and may or may not be here in SHTF). We do have kind of extended group in that we have a couple of other families (one a couple miles one direction another just a few the other) that would expect to do a lot of mutual aid with and possibly combine depending on situations. Also our only 'kids' are the 18 year old and his fiance. I figure that just like trapping works better than hunting to provide meat and waiting for game tends to be more productive than trying to chase it down, guarding isnt the first line for security and if have to fight it would not be toe to toe if you get my drift. The small size of our group and the fact that the other families have their own places they would be likely to stay is one reason I figure I would be open to it if the RIGHT folks happened along who had be fourced to BO and didnt have a good place to settle. Figure a few more hands to help with work and security could be a benifit and especialy for some time would be more like hired hands than family/group members.
  10. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    My opinion only but take it for what it's worth. A small family sized group in a complete TEOTWAKI post SHTF world will have very little chance of surviving long. Without the manpower to defend your retreat you will be easy fodder for MZB's.

    IMO, 20-30 people, adults and kids (teens) old enough to handle firearms would be the minimum number you would need to have any chance of long term survival. Unless you lived in the wildest of the wilds and could avoid all contact with others.

    In a societal breakdown the have nots will form packs and prey on the haves. People in rural places with provisions will be prime targets.

    Thus the need to take in able bodied, equipped or skilled refugees.
    This should be a contingent provided for in advance.

    Another thing that I have heard that makes a lot of sense is that 30 armed and skilled people can move into and have a good chance of holding any place they choose. I know some groups whose contingency plans included bugging out to the woods and securing a section to themselves.
    So no need to buy land or have an already established retreat.
    I don't neccesarily agree with that plan but it does have some merit.

    But the key is having enough (trained) people to provide adequate security no matter where your BOL happens to be.
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Alright, then. Looks like there could be grounds to admit certain folks that happen upon your BOL after all. What are the criteria for admission?
  12. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    First and foremost is an evaluation of the newcomers. I would recommend one person who has a demonstrated talent for evaluating people. For example, I am the type of person who takes everyone at face value. I am too trusting, until you prove to me that you can't be trusted. My best friend is the opposite, he doesn't trust anyone and you have to prove yourself to him first. Neither one of those attitudes would be good for evaluating people in a survival situation. So that job would fall to my wife. I don't know if it is a natural trait or if it has been developed from her years of nursing, but she has a proven record of being able to accurately size someone up. She has the uncanny ability to tell if someone is lying or hiding something and whether or not they are trustworthy.
    My friend and I could evaluate whether or not they had any skills to offer the tribe, and what kind of practical knowledge that they might possess, or lack. But my wifes evaluation of thier character would be a deciding factor in whether or not they were extended an invitation to stay.

    So the criteria would be;

    1) good character (honest, of like or similar mindset )

    2) something to contribute to the good of the tribe( guns, ammo, foodstores or knowledge ie; an experienced mechanic, welder, hunter, gunsmith etc., or with women; canning, gardening, teaching etc.)

    3) adaptability ( will they fit in with the rest of the tribe, are they braggarts, drunks, gossips, etc. I guess this would also be character as in flaws, but it could be just thier particular personality traits.)

    4) Does the tribe need more members? (Sustainability must be factored in. But this should be counted beforehand. How many people can we realistically house, feed, and care for? The more hands the more that can be accomplished. But the more resources are consumed. So there would have to be an optimum number that if exceeded would lead to a denigration of the tribes living standard.)

    I believe that in a survival situation the standard rule would have to be;
    "The good of the many outweighs the needs of the few"
    In a SHTF world many hard decisions will have to be made. Many that today would seem cruel. But in the end the overall good of the many has to be the deciding factor. A good leader will have to make those decisions with that in mind. That is why I do not believe in a democratic system in a survival situation. There will always be those who don't have the heart or the courage to make those cruel but neccessary decisions.

    An old saying that I like;
    "The strength of the wolf is in the pack, the strength of the pack is in the wolf."

    A strong pack is made up of strong wolves. And the weak are eliminated from the pack. Or in this scenario, not allowed to join.
  13. Gopherman

    Gopherman Sometimes I Wish I Could Go Back to Sleep

    I like this Thread!
    I am, by nature, a very generous person, and try my best always to be kind, However, I have been telling everyone I know and care about, including my own family, they need to wake up and get ready, somethings coming soon!!
    They look at me like I am a nut, and put their heads right back in the sand, leaving their but sticking straight up in the air to get bit off, and not even trying to have an open mind.
    When it hits the fan only the very few people I have pre-selected and maybe a stray or two and that's it!
    The Ant and the Grasshopper comes to mind when I think about this scenario. The difference is the first winter, is the last next winter, and the way the story goes the grasshopper repeated his mistake and learned nothing.
    Most people who are intelligent enough to let join my group, are already awake!
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