TV reception sketchy as hell

Discussion in 'Survival Communications' started by Zimmy, Apr 23, 2018.


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  1. Zimmy

    Zimmy Wait, I'm not ready!

    I live in on of those between places. The new digital channels have greatly increased the amount of channels theoretically available. However, I get about 25 of a hypothetical 108.

    What can I build or buy to get a better signal than my current 1970s (in the attic) ariel? Stations are in multiple directions so a more focused antenna didn't work very well. I have a commercially available signal booster running now. Without it I might not get any signal at all.

    Pre-digital we had plenty of quality reception.
     
  2. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    Digital tv and radio require nearly ten times the power at the transmitter site to provide similar coverage to analog...and that is more subject to rain fade.
    I went with an antenna with (iirc a winegard 8200xl) about a 14 or 16 foot boom, mounted on a 30 foot tower and a 20db signal amplifier. Without spinning it we can get about 70 channels...if i feel like it, I can usually get from Houston to Pensacola.
    A friend uses a 40m horizontal loop antenna in his attic...good for a few stations.
     
  3. William Warren

    William Warren Monkey+++

    I feel your pain!

    Here' the problem: Digital TV is almost all on the old "UHF" channels, and even if the station's ID shows "WXYZ," and "WXYZ" used to be on channel 2 or 3, it isn't anymore. It's in the UHF band, the old channels 14 to ~65 that were largely used for independent sports outlets or the Fox network or PBS-lite.

    UHF frequencies don't travel as far as VHF, and they need a clear line-of-sight to work right. In theory, every leaf on any tree in between your antenna and the transmitter's antenna will cut the power as much as 1/2 - so "DTV" has two strikes against it before it even starts: not only does it use frequencies that don't travel as far, but the digital format is more "brittle" than the old analog system, which would degrade more gracefully than digital. An analog signal might show ghosts or fading or noise, but you could still follow the program. Digital is an "all or nothing" system, which goes from a perfect signal to nothing if there's any interference or too long a path or the wrong kind of antenna cable.

    DTV was a gift to the cable companies, because it drove so many people to order a cable connection when the old rabbit ears used to be good enough. It was also a gift to over-the-air broadcasters, each of which got a spare channel to sell, at a time when cellular companies were gobbling up any bandwidth that they could find. As if that weren't enough, the costs of new transmitters and cameras and control panels were offset by the ability to share a channel with another station, and thus cut the transmitter's price and operating expenses by half.

    Make no mistake: if you want to know what our politicians are really afraid of, look at your TV set.

    William Warren
     
    Brokor, Zimmy, ghrit and 4 others like this.
  4. Tevin

    Tevin Monkey+++

    The obvious answer is to get satellite TV. If that's not appealing, then at least get the antenna out of the attic and up high enough to catch a signal. Where it is now cannot be more than 20-25 feet, and indoors at that. It's a wonder you even get 25 channels.

    As @William Warren very accurately describes, digital TV is binary, 1's and 0's. There is no in between. You either have a signal or you don't.

    If your stations are in all different directions, then get an antenna rotator so you can point it accordingly. You don't need a huge $1000 rotator like ham radio guys use. Simple rotators are available for less than $100.
     
    Zimmy likes this.
  5. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    Sat is not at all perfect. Up pops the thunderhead between you and the object in the sky, and your signal takes a hike in the wilderness. A local friend is going back to over the air broadcasts, says it will work more reliably than the sat he has now. Dunno, 'bout that, waiting on the results of his experiments.
     
    Gator 45/70 and Zimmy like this.
  6. Zimmy

    Zimmy Wait, I'm not ready!

    I'm in the middle of a forest of giant trees, at that.

    Ok, the difference between digital and analog told me a lot. I'll get it back outside and on the roof. (we don't raise turkeys or peacocks anymore. That made this an impossibility before)

    If that fails I will upgrade the antenna.
     
  7. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    The trick to Digital SAT Tv is to get a Bigger Dish Antenna... Most of you folks are likely to use an 18" Dish or similar for SAT Tv... However if you were trying to do it in Alaska, like me, we needed a 1 meter Dishes at a minimum to get a stable reception level... Find a 1 meter Dish and use that and you will find that Rain Fade will NOT be an issue any longer... I went to a 3 meter Dish, and it cured ALL our Rain (which we get a lot of) Fade issues, as well a Snow Losses... The 1 meter Dishes are "Dime a Dozen" in Alaska these days, because when Starband went bust, all there Dishes became just so much scrap... I think I have about 10 of them sitting around gathering moss.... I suspect @DKR is in the same boat....
     
  8. Zimmy

    Zimmy Wait, I'm not ready!

    I refuse to pay for another luxury service as if it is a utility.
     
    Idahoser and Cruisin Sloth like this.
  9. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Now see I'd be taking those cast off dishes and making solar collectors and stills and making power with them.
    I have Hughes net (satellite) but it's expensive , and free air tv is like one station not even worth the effort ,
    best of luck .
     
  10. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    www.antennaweb.com

    Put in your address and let it analyze then you can select the right antenna. Also check www.gomohu.com and do the same thing there.

    With digital signals you can mount external antennas in your attic if you don't want it to be visible or exposed to a harsh environment.
     
    Zimmy and Gator 45/70 like this.
  11. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    Antenna web domain is for sale...and unless you live in the same town as the transmitter, don't waste your money on the little antennas...they don't cut the mustard. Got a couple I really need to discard...thanks for the reminder!
     
  12. ochit

    ochit Monkey+

    My life is better now that I do not watch TV as much, I get more done found inner peace, my hair is softer my nails grow more evenly, teeth are whiter my clothes don't wrinkle and my dog doesn't bite people anymore. unfortunately all the rest of the a-holes in the world still watch it :)
     
    Zimmy likes this.
  13. DKR

    DKR Raconteur of the first stripe

    @BTPost
    I live in the part of town where GEO birds are visible - thru a small gap in the mountains. Other folks are stuck, no DBS service possible.

    However, we get our cable and internet from the same (poor quality, piss poor customer service) provider - GCI.

    The company is for sale - just pending approval form the PTB, then it will be owned by a larger Outside company,. I'm positive that the local CSR will be canned and I'll have to deal with some (bad word) idiot in Bangladesh or some other non-English speaking country - all to save money owing to the assumed new (massive) debt load.
     
  14. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Yea, I hear you, @DKR ... When they bought the Cellular Side of ACS, that service went to He!! in a hurry... They are the folks that supply the Cannery with VoIP Service and Data. Last summer when we asked them to turn up to our summer Data Rate to what we need to interact with our Home Office, they tried and Failed, due to the Sales Staff over Selling the Bandwidth on the Transponder (by more than TWICE) they leased on the GeoBird... "So Sorry, We can only provide enough for your VoIP Phones, and that is it." I found a local Guy that got us 30MBS on a 5Ghz dedicated Terrestrial System from Juneau, with a Relay Setup up on Hoonah Mtn... and it worked GREAT... Then the Guy Killed himself in an Airplane Crash up in Haines, AK, and his father took over the Business, and He and our IT Guru, couldn't come to an arrangement for this year, and our Guy cooked a deal with ACS, to put in another SAT Dish, while I am on vacation, so I do not know if that even works, till I get back on May 2nd... GCI is the same outfit that couldn't seem to even fix our VoIP System when it crashed this spring. It was out for almost a month, all due to One Box up at the ANC NOC, that failed, and was so Old, that NO Spare was available, and the NEWER Replacement, wouldn't talk to Their Old VoIP Router at our site... 3.5 Weeks later, they finally sent out a KID, and all he did was hook his LapTop to MY Internet Connection, and to the Console Port on their VoIP Router and walked away for three Hours while the Tech up in Anchorage reconfigured the Router for the NEWER Box in Anchorage.... When they finally finished, we had Dial Tone, and Outgoing was fine, but they somehow Messed Up the Direct IN Dialing for our 10 DID Numbers, so none of that was working when I left on vacation... There is supposed to be some NEW Outfit that is Promising 20MBS BiDirectional Data via GeoSAT, once they get their Bird in-place in 2019-20... I will believe it when It actually Happens... Right NOW, I am sitting in the MOtel Room in Moab, Utah, getting cooled off....
     
  15. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Sorry, I goofed up - the correct link is www.antennaweb.org
     
  16. techsar

    techsar Monkey+++

    No worries...between com org net edu biz gov us ca de ru and the myriad of other suffixes I'm surprised it doesn't occur more often.
     
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