1. The Topic of the Month for October is "Make this the Perfect Bugout Location". Please join the discussion in the TOTM forum.


Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Quigley_Sharps, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    The recent seizure of a North Korean freighter carrying Cuban, nuclear-capable SA-2 missile components for refurbishment has resurrected the spectre of the 1962 Cuban missile crisis, when another communist nation developed nuclear dealings with America’s island neighbor.
    Richard Fisher, a military affairs specialist, explained the significance of the shipment, which was captured in the Panama Canal: “North Korea, a country soon to be in a position to export nuclear warhead armed ballistic missiles, now has a missile relationship with Cuba.”

    Until now, there has not been extensive military cooperation between Cuba and North Korea. However, a high-level North Korean delegation recently visited Cuba, possibly resulting in a deal for Cuba to send military equipment to North Korea for refurbishment in exchange for barter payment with some 10,000 tons of sugar that was declared as the cargo.
    The missile components, however, were undeclared, resulting in the Panamanian seizure, which reportedly was prompted by a tip of drugs being on board the ship.
    Fisher said the shipment was part of a Cuban-North Korean military cooperation effort to upgrade each country’s SA-2s with advanced tracking electronics.
    “With such upgrades, these heretofore obsolete [surface-to-air missiles, or SAMs] have been given new hard-to-counter capabilities, and the prospect of such upgrades going into the still substantial population of these SAMs began to concern the U.S. military over a decade ago,” he said.
    While the SA-2 was designed to shoot down high-altitude aircraft, national security experts are further concerned it could be used for something far more devastating: a high-altitude nuclear detonation that could cause a crippling electromagnetic pulse, or EMP.
    Such an EMP attack would knock out the Eastern U.S. grid system and all unprotected electronics and automated control systems, which together form the backbone of the technology-based infrastructure of the U.S., according to these sources and recent studies on the financial impact of such an event.
    Read the documentation that’s sparking the worry about the EMP threat, in “A Nation Forsaken.”
    It was an SA-2 that downed an American U-2 on May 1, 1960, while undertaking a high-altitude reconnaissance over the then Soviet Union. The U-2 was flown by Francis Gary Powers, who was captured and put in prison for two years (another SA-2 shot down Major Rudolph Anderson’s U-2 over Cuba two years later, during the Cuban missile crisis).
    Powers, who was employed by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency at the time, was aware that Soviet aircraft were not capable of reaching the altitude at which the U-2 could fly. The CIA, however, was unaware that the Soviets had developed the SA-2 or its high-altitude capabilities.
    Since then, the SA-2 has been modified to make it more capable.
    The SA-2 and its radar is “still in use in a lot of countries,” said James Hardy, Asia-Pacific editor of IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly, “and progressive upgrades to the radars and the missiles means it is not completely useless.”
    Because the Soviet radar system remains in use, the U.S. and other countries have come up with the ability to jam its radar. However, the radar has been modified over the years to undertake “counter-counter-electronic measures (that) have been fitted to later, post-Soviet models of this radar,” Hardy said.
    In looking at the potential military relationship between Pyongyang and Havana, other national security sources say that Cuba could be used as a potential base from which the North Koreans could move a freighter along the U.S. East coast to launch the missile to explode a small, high-altitude nuclear device above the highly populated region stretching from New York to Richmond, Va.
    “The SA-2 is a surface-to-air anti-aircraft missile that could be used for an EMP attack, if armed with a nuclear warhead and launched from a ship near the U.S. Coast,” according to Peter Vincent Pry, a former Central Intelligence Agency analyst who was staff director of a congressionally mandated commission to look at the impact of an EMP event on the Nation’s critical infrastructures.
    Pry today is executive director of the Task Force on National and Homeland Security.
    In an exclusive interview with WND, Pry pointed out that the ceiling of the SA-2 is up to 35 kilometers, which goes beyond the minimum optimal height for an EMP burst.
    Pry said the SA-2 could achieve this ceiling with an “HE (high explosive) warhead weighing, depending on warhead type, 200-295 kilograms, or 440-650 pounds.”
    “The U.S. Cold War-era W-84 neutron warhead weighed less than 50 kilograms and could be used as an enhanced EMP weapon,” Pry said. “So, armed with a much lighter warhead for EMP attack, any of the SAM (surface-to-air missiles) variants would have a much higher operational ceiling. Indeed, the Soviets designed the SA-2 to carry a 15 kiloton nuclear warhead (weighing 650 pounds) to high altitude.”
    If the SA-2 were to be used in an EMP attack on the U.S., Pry said that it “would be launched from a freighter against a big coastal city, like New York or Washington, which would probably collapse the entire Eastern grid that provides 70 percent of the nation’s electricity.”
    The Nation’s missile defense system, Pry said, would not be able to intercept the SA-2 if it were launched from a ship, since the flight time to altitude is so short. The SA-2 travels at a speed of Mach 3.5, or three times the speed of sound.
    In a May 31, 2013, Pry joined former CIA Director R. James Woolsey in writing an article for The Wall Street Journal outlining how North Korea could cripple the U.S. with an EMP attack.
    In the article, they said that North Korea needs only a single nuclear warhead “in order to pose an existential threat to the U.S. … Detonating a nuclear weapon high above any part of the U.S. mainland would generate a catastrophic electromagnetic pulse.”

    “An EMP attack,” they said, “would collapse the electric grid and other infrastructure that depends on it – communications, transportation, banking and finance, food and water – necessary to sustain modern civilization and the lives of 300 million Americans.”
    They pointed out that EMP effects could be even “more powerful and more catastrophic by using an Enhanced Radiation Warhead,” they wrote. “This is a low-yield nuclear weapon designed not to create a devastating explosion, but to emit large amounts of radiation including the gamma rays that generate the EMP effect that fries electronics.”
    Following a nuclear test last December and a successful missile test earlier this year, North Korea began making public threats to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike against the U.S.
    To underscore this threat, Pyongyang issued highly publicized videos showing a nuclear detonation over New York City and Washington, D.C.
    A September 2007 study by The Sage Policy Group estimated that the financial cost of an EMP event just from Baltimore, Md., Washington, D.C., to Richmond, VA, would approach $800 billion. In today’s dollars, the cost could surpass a trillion dollars.
    “Various government reports, such as the one by the U.S. Congressional EMP Commission and the Congressional Research Service, have confirmed the growing likelihood of EMP events of various kinds,” the report said.
    “These reports and related Congressional testimony support the contention that relatively available and inexpensive SCUD type missiles are capable of carrying the required payload that could be launched from a small ship 200 or more miles off the East Coast of the United States and detonated between 30 and 80 miles high,” the report said.
    “Any EMP-inflicted damage delivered from this altitude would extend out hundreds of miles beyond the region considered in this study, significantly complicating the recovery process and the restoration of economic activity while producing economic consequences roughly 10 times greater than those impacting the Baltimore-Washington-Richmond region,” the study said at the time.

    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/u-s-faces-brand-new-cuban-missile-crisis/#GUr6h2fzP4Ml3X62.99
  2. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member


    Another view of Starfish Prime through thin cloud, as seen from Honolulu

    On July 9, 1962, at 09:00:09 Coordinated Universal Time, (July 8, Honolulu time, at nine seconds after 11 p.m.), the Starfish Prime test was successfully detonated at an altitude of 400 kilometres (250 mi). The coordinates of the detonation were
    [​IMG] WikiMiniAtlas
    16°28′N 169°38′W

    .[5] The actual weapon yield came very close to the design yield, which various sources have set at different values in the range of 1.4 to 1.45 megatons (6.0 PJ).

    The Thor missile carrying the Starfish Prime warhead reached a maximum height of about 1100 km (just over 680 miles), and the warhead detonated on its downward trajectory when it had fallen to the programmed altitude of 400 kilometres (250 mi). The nuclear warhead detonated 13 minutes and 41 seconds after liftoff of the Thor missile from Johnston Island.[6]
    Starfish Prime caused an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) which was far larger than expected, so much larger that it drove much of the instrumentation off scale, causing great difficulty in getting accurate measurements. The Starfish Prime electromagnetic pulse also made those effects known to the public by causing electrical damage in Hawaii, about 1,445 kilometres (898 mi) away from the detonation point, knocking out about 300 streetlights, setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link. The EMP damage to the microwave link shut down telephone calls from Kauai to the other Hawaiian islands.[5]
    A total of 27 small rockets were launched from Johnston Island to obtain experimental data from the Starfish Prime detonation. In addition, a large number of rocket-borne instruments were launched from a firing area at Barking Sands, Kauai in the Hawaiian Islands.[7]
    A very large number of United States military ships and aircraft were operating in support of Starfish Prime in the Johnston Island area and across the nearby North Pacific region.
    A few military ships and aircraft were also positioned in the region of the South Pacific Ocean near the Samoan Islands. This location was at the southern end of the magnetic field line of the Earth's magnetic field from position of the nuclear detonation, an area known as the southern conjugate region for the test. In addition, an uninvited scientific expeditionary ship from the Soviet Union was stationed near Johnston Island for the test and another Soviet scientific expeditionary ship was located in the southern conjugate region near the Samoan Islands.[8]
    After the Starfish Prime detonation, bright auroras were observed in the detonation area as well as in the southern conjugate region on the other side of the equator from the detonation. According to one of the first technical reports, "The visible phenomena due to the burst were widespread and quite intense; a very large area of the Pacific was illuminated by the auroral phenomena, from far south of the south magnetic conjugate area (Tongatapu) through the burst area to far north of the north conjugate area (French Frigate Shoals). . . . At twilight after the burst, resonant scattering of light from lithium and other debris was observed at Johnston and French Frigate Shoals for many days confirming the long time presence of debris in the atmosphere. An interesting side effect was that the Royal New Zealand Air Force was aided in anti-submarine maneuvers by the light from the bomb."[7]
    In part, these auroral effects were predicted by Nicholas Christofilos, a scientist who had earlier worked on the Operation Argus high-altitude nuclear shots.
    According to U.S. atomic veteran Cecil R. Coale,[9] some hotels in Hawaii offered "rainbow bomb" parties on their roofs for Starfish Prime, contradicting some reports that the artificial aurora was unexpected.
    Pages 19–21 of "A 'Quick Look' at the Technical Results of Starfish Prime", August 1962 states:[7]
    "At Kwajalein, 1,400 [nautical] miles [2,600 km; 1,600 mi] to the west, a dense overcast extended the length of the eastern horizon to a height of 5 or 8 degrees. At 0900 GMT a brilliant white flash burned through the clouds rapidly changing to an expanding green ball of irradiance extending into the clear sky above the overcast. From its surface extruded great white fingers, resembling cirro-stratus clouds, which rose to 40 degrees above the horizon in sweeping arcs turning downward toward the poles and disappearing in seconds to be replaced by spectacular concentric cirrus like rings moving out from the blast at tremendous initial velocity, finally stopping when the outermost ring was 50 degrees overhead. They did not disappear but persisted in a state of frozen stillness. All this occurred, I would judge, within 45 seconds. As the greenish light turned to purple and began to fade at the point of burst, a bright red glow began to develop on the horizon at a direction 50 degrees north of east and simultaneously 50 degrees south of east expanding inward and upward until the whole eastern sky was a dull burning red semicircle 100 degrees north to south and halfway to the zenith obliterating some of the lesser stars. This condition, interspersed with tremendous white rainbows, persisted no less than seven minutes."
    "At zero time at Johnston, a white flash occurred, but as soon as one could remove his goggles, no intense light was present. A second after shot time a mottled red disc was observed directly overhead and covered the sky down to about 45 degrees from the zenith. Generally, the red mottled region was more intense on the eastern portions. Along the magnetic north-south line through the burst, a white-yellow streak extended and grew to the north from near zenith. The width of the white streaked region grew from a few degrees at a few seconds to about 5-10 degrees in 30 seconds. Growth of the auroral region to the north was by addition of new lines developing from west to east. The white-yellow auroral streamers receded upward from the horizon to the north and grew to the south and at about 2 minutes the white-yellow bands were still about 10 degrees wide and extended mainly from near zenith to the south. By about two minutes, the red disc region had completed disappearance in the west and was rapidly fading on the eastern portion of the overhead disc. At 400 seconds essentially all major visible phenomena had disappeared except for possibly some faint red glow along the north-south line and on the horizon to the north. No sounds were heard at Johnston Island that could be definitely attributed to the detonation."
    "Strong electromagnetic signals were observed from the burst, as were significant magnetic field disturbances and earth currents."[7]
    In 2006, Palmer Dyal described the particle and field measurements of the Starfish diamagnetic cavity and the injected beta flux into the artificial radiation belt in the Journal of Geophysical Research.[10] His measurements describe the explosion from 0.1 milliseconds to 16 minutes after the detonation.

    While some of the energetic beta particles followed the Earth's magnetic field and illuminated the sky, other high-energy electrons became trapped and formed radiation beltsaround the earth. There was much uncertainty and debate[who?] about the composition, magnitude and potential adverse effects from this trapped radiation after the detonation. The weaponeers became quite worried when three satellites in low earth orbit were disabled. These man-made radiation belts eventually crippled one-third of all satellites in low earth orbit. Seven satellites failed over the months following the test as radiation damaged their solar arrays or electronics, including the first commercial relay communication satellite,Telstar.[11][12][13] Detectors on Telstar, TRAAC, Injun, and Ariel 1 were used to measure distribution of the radiation produced by the tests.[14]
    In 1963, Brown et al. reported in theJournal of Geophysical Researchthat Starfish Prime had created a belt of MeV electrons,[15]andWilmot Hessreported in 1968 that some Starfish electrons remained for five years.[16]
  3. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Along with the missiles, there were at least two MIG 21 fighter jets alleged to be on the way to NK for refurb. Undeclared, of course. Kudos to Panama for diligence, even if it was triggered by a drug transport tip rather than hardware.

    'Sfunny that they haven't yet released some of the crew and sent them home. Not all of them should have or could have known of the contraband, even if the master and mates did. Admiralty law allows for the ship itself to be arrested and held along with and individually from the crew.
    Quigley_Sharps likes this.
  4. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    The scenario described in the article - a NK ship, bound for a Cuban port, launching a missile and exploding it over the southeastern US, creating an EMP - actually adds some level of credibility to North Korea's seemingly farcical threats of a preemptive attack on the US mainland.

    The drug tip itself is interesting. It sounds like an outside intelligence agency, presumably American, learned of the weapons shipment through a source too sensitive to risk burning; and called in the "drug tip" either officially or unofficially. I'm would imagine though that Cuban counter intelligence is thinking along similar lines and is presently looking for the source of the leak.
    kellory, Yard Dart and Quigley_Sharps like this.
  5. Icefoot

    Icefoot Monkey+

    This is the exact scenario written about in "One Second After". Cargo ships launching short range nuke equipped missiles over the US mainland and detonating them to create enough EMP coverage to wipe out the entire country's technological base. Maybe Kim Jong Un used it for a blueprint? Or maybe he was pissed it was published giving away his plan? Somebody in the dark recesses of the intelligence communities went "oh crap. we didn't think of that"...

    Such an attack is not as far fetched as most people think...
  6. CaboWabo5150

    CaboWabo5150 Lost in the woods

    Doesn't sound so bad.. If that's what it takes to get Honey-Boo-Boo off the air.. :)

    Sure the economy would jump in the sheet-house, but once the animals in the big cities all killed each other off, Detroit might be inhabitable again.
  7. Illini Warrior

    Illini Warrior Monkey+

    it's just conjecture that Cuba was sending the dated weapon systems for rehab ..... always a possibility that N Korea bought the equipment for their own use or resale to their 3rd World client list ..... I'm just wondering if Cuba received some of N Korea's "funny money" it prints by the ton .... East Germany shipped it's entire counterfeiting operation to N Korea as The Wall collapsed .... supposedly US $100 bills and British pound notes that look almost perfect .....

    Everybody knows the cocaine cartel comes thru Cuba ..... eazy peazy money washing
    tulianr likes this.
  8. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Quigs, love ya, bro...but that font type is way too small. lol! (and I am not quite 40 yet with perfect 20/20 vision) -ish.
  9. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    It seems time to Invest in Farraday cage futures :-O
    kellory likes this.
  10. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Sorry B, the top one I change to 4 size and the bottom one to 5, are either of those good?I think my monitor displays it differently than on SM.
    LOL reading glasses this year for me maybe that makes it look bigger to me :)
    Brokor likes this.
  11. Ajax

    Ajax Monkey++

    Maybe the bomb will just pre-detonate on the boat before they can launch it.

    Seriously though, loss of electricity along with some other attack measures would be pretty devastating.

    If they caught one ship imagine how many have slipped through the cracks.
  12. DarkLight

    DarkLight I self identify as a Blackhawk Attack Helicopter! Site Supporter

    Hopefully enough? ;)
  13. franks71vw

    franks71vw Monkey+++

    CIA should have gotten rid of Fidel and his crownies... but in the mean time one can only imagine if other missles have be refurbed and just waiting for launch..
  14. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    They tried that once... It is called "The Bay of Pigs"... and it was a Total Cluster F**k... because Kennedy never sent the Air Support, that was promised.... and the ex-Patriot Cubans, have NEVER forgiven Him for that.... It lead to the cuban Missile Crisis, as a DIRECT Result..... and likely to his Assassination.....
    Brokor likes this.
  15. franks71vw

    franks71vw Monkey+++

    Exactly BT that was a typical CIA, we are going to appease you all and whammo pull back... Yet here we are dealing with a terd still today...
  16. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Not much is real, it's all a performance. Of course, sometimes the people are real, and the results are real.

    FACT: The U.S. Secret Government is one of the leading arms dealers in the world. And as far as secret governments are concerned, Russia has long been a brother to ours, and together they dominate the global stage.

    Maybe one of the reasons this is going down and we are made privy, is due to competition. Maybe it's just time to get the ball rolling. It could all be staged, too.
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary