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UBI or Universal Basic Income

Discussion in 'Financial Cents' started by enloopious, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    Has anyone else heard of UBI or universal basic income? This is something the global elites are talking about doing so that everyone can have the basic things needed to survive.

    The idea is that robots and technology will make enough in the very near future so that people will not need to work ever again. They say that this is not a matter of IF but of WHEN. So they figure that in order to keep people from killing themselves because they lead meaningless lives, they are going to give everyone on the planet $1000/mo for drugs and food etc...

    I have some thoughts on this but would like to hear what everyone else thinks first.
    Gator 45/70, Meat and duane like this.
  2. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    Without work there is no purpose. I have to be productive. Its my purpose.
  3. Merkun

    Merkun furious dreamer

    ubi or its equivalent is at the core of most of the socialist leaning candidates advocating freebies of one sort or another. Personally, I don't see what the difference is between that and simply setting up warehouses with the basic necessities and allowing everyone to pass thru and take what they "need." Now, replen of the warehouse becomes an interesting question, who is to pay for that? One might tax the rich, but then comes the question, how does one become rich if burdened with a tax to feed all the others that ain't rich?
  4. Meat

    Meat Monkey+++

    A form of this is already in place. Just swipe and eat. You want a pizza? Swipe. Beef jerky, pepperoni sticks and etc etc? Adding UBI is a terrible idea. My guess is 25 percent of it will go up people’s nose or into a vein. Other than that I don’t mind Yang too much. :D
    enloopious, Gator 45/70 and 3M-TA3 like this.
  5. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey Site Supporter++

    UBI will just cause inflation that will gobble it up within a year or at most two. It's no different than increasing the minimum wage in that regard. These type of policies destroy savings by taking away their buying power and so cause great harm to the elderly.

    The same people pushing UBI will attempt to curb the inflation through price controls. Now we are really upping the economic damage since many businesses faced by the first rounds of inflation won't be able to make a profit and will go out of business. They will no doubt then make it a crime to selfishly go out of business.

    It will fook us and make Venezuela seem like a paradise in comparison.

    Never let the politicians try to completely control the economy. Safeguards, yes, and some amount of steering, but given enough control will screw the pooch every time. BTW you are the pooch.
    Ganado, BlueDuck, enloopious and 4 others like this.
  6. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    It does not take human nature and personality traits into account. It does not take economic reality into account. Not only could we not afford it but also giving everyone 12k per year will mean that everyone who does work has to pay at lest double that for all the other folks who don’t work. Also, just like raising the minimum wage causes inflation so will this.

    The other big thing is personality and human nature. Some people are lazy by their personality and some people are workers. They have to work. I am very much like that. The problem with advancement of technology is that our society is becoming more and more geared towards people with high IQs. The people 100 or less have a harder time adapting to the fast paced technological jobs. So, you can have someone who loves to work but has a iq too low to do anything meaningful. Those are the people I feel bad for. We need a certain amount of low skill factory work in our society to allow those people to live meaningful lives.
    enloopious, Gator 45/70 and 3M-TA3 like this.
  7. Thunder5Ranch

    Thunder5Ranch Monkey+++

    LOL it won't work because it pays less than Welfare Cash Benefits and Food Stamps not to mention the free housing and medical that go along with the welfare. Need a raise pop out another kid or three or four or twenty.

    More seriously though it cannot be denied that even retail and service based jobs area are disappearing fast to automation. It will not be long and the competition for low to no skill service jobs will be intense. Those people will have no options. The middle class is also being decimated the gap between upper middle class and lower middle class is huge with the upper half moving into the wealthy category and the lower half falling into the low income section. above average intelligence predators will do fine average and below intelligence sheep will not do so fine in the age of advanced automation, AI and technologies.

    We already have a first world Nation existing on top of a 3rd world Nation here in the USA, I expect over the next decade that 3rd world aspect of the USA is going to increase rapidly. We see it now, the haves are having more and more and have not are having less and less. I am a predator by nature and will always find a way to put meat on the table. The sheep people just are not wired in the brain exist outside of the herd and to hunt whether it be money or meat that is being hunted for.

    A big difference between what is happening now with technology that is replacing the need for human workers and say the horse and wagon being replaced by the automobile. When the horse was replaced many more people were need to manufacture the automobiles than were needed to build buggys and train horses. Today it is the exact opposite and far few people are needed to manufacture anything. Warehouses are no longer staffed by people but by robots that go up and down aisles pulling orders, fast food and even grocery shopping is being replaced by kiosk and the self check outs. A couple of pilot stores are set up to be totally automated where you place your shopping list online, pay online and robots pick your order and have it waiting for you to pick up. It only takes a handful of techs to run the entire operation. A business that once required 50-100 employees now only needs 5-6 high tech skilled employees.

    No idea what the solution to the emerging massive problem is. Just can see a massive problem approaching faster and faster. Can't just say the unemployed people are lazy and don't want to work anymore when that problem fully manifest. What I do know is that 50 million hungry people without purpose or meaning is going to be a very dangerous situation.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  8. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    This $15 an hour minimum wage bs will hasten the transition to automation.
  9. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Sounds good and works fine until you either run out of other peoples money or the money you create becomes worthless. The system we have in place now, government financing of education, medicine, welfare, disability income, paid "do gooder's" in the immigration, child protection, drug treatment, prisoner out reach, job training, etc, would seem to indicate that those running the programs do very well, but those receiving the benefits and in theory the money, do poorly. As far back as the Romans, bread and circus programs may well have created a system of individuals that supported those in charge, but the long term vitality of the nation was destroyed, but then we have the new genetically modified snakes, so this batch of magic snake oil will give different results and the rehashing of the old programs will work this time.[sarc2]
    enloopious, Gator 45/70 and 3M-TA3 like this.
  10. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    First, in true Rockefeller spirit, the .Gov hates competition. Second, corporations got into the government business a long time ago and have become the government, so good luck with that eternal ebola canker sore. Third and finally, if you're not talking about burning everything down, you're just not making any sense at all because aside from that no matter where we go from here we end up being staked to the ground in the sun being tea bagged by Bernie Sanders.
    Another way to look at it is to ask the question, "where do we need to go from here", or perhaps, "how do we become an advanced civilization" since we already know some, if not most of the key components to the answer already. Listen, to the globalists, your economy and way of life doesn't mean squawk, not on the entry level of the equation. Even with Socialism models, the best and brightest have to know that it's a zero sum game ultimately. So, assuming (and I really do mean that in most cases) that our wise leaders and bleeding heart counterparts who look human but probably have robotic parts inside their bodies and an old Pentium III brain propelled by a Microsoft operating system actually know what they are doing, I would think we're on a collision course no matter what we rally against and it's only a matter of time before we find ourselves face to face with that Bernie Sanders shit eating grin with him holding a handful of stakes to pound into the ground. In short, we're not going to be able to move ahead as a species if we're always holding back our potential, stagnating in our churches, mosques and synagogues, perfectly content being entertained by mindless comedy and our bodies satiated with polyunsaturated fat and Coca-Cola. The term "freedom" can easily be synonymous with "freedumb", because we are only as strong as our weakest link and our potential is perpetually dampened by relativistic gobblygook and traditionalist chains which will only serve to keep us rooted in the same position. To answer the first two questions, we must accept the fact that we really need to alter our core philosophies and understanding of what it means to be human, as well as truly understand our responsibility in this existence. In a free society, you're perfectly capable of becoming nothing besides a lab rat sitting on a couch riddled with fifty-two varieties of cancer, or a soulless entrepreneur who achieves great wealth by taking advantage of other people and dying bitter and empty because you never found a meaningful purpose. The socialism kick is mostly about closing that gap and finding a sweet spot where the majority of people can work with a single goal in mind and perhaps provide the impetus for our potential to be utilized for the greater good. But, that's also one of the main detractors, since we must determine "who" decides what the greater good really is and at what cost.
    The thing is, Socialism or Communism or Fascism are not answers in themselves, either. The chosen system in place really isn't the primary focus because it's just a vehicle taking us from one point to another and there isn't an end game which utilizes the same system. I guess I am trying to say, it's a stepping stone to a final destination. Some folks have theorized that an advanced civilization would be more militaristic, structured much the same way as envisioned in Star Trek or some other mainstream Sci-Fi depiction of a classless and cashless society. People would work only to better themselves and all of humanity in a quest to unlock our potential, and in this manner provide a meaning to each existence through feeding our seemingly ravenous appetite to find answers, using technology to improve life and perhaps create a paradise for ourselves and our progeny. Instead of mind numbing entertainment for a few hours each day after a long day of grinding out at work to earn a living just so we can spend money on a bunch of junk we really don't need and storing it all in massive, energy inefficient homes, we would be living in sensible domiciles as a part of habitats created to exist in harmony with nature, and work only improves the standard of living for all beings.
    Yes, UBI and every other attempt to curb greed and individualism appears to be ravenously dangerous to capitalist society, because it is the exact antithesis to individualism and selfishness. Our problem does not rest in what that is or what this may be, it resides in the process of transitioning from one to the other and any type of rationalizing how it can sustain itself by maintaining our current habits and lifestyle. We are also assuming we've got all the time in the world to keep on mulling about on this rock, but the entire history for all of humanity is but a blink of an eye in the time of this magnificent universe. Our time here isn't infinite, and we may be up against a time crunch. The question then becomes, "how do we become an advanced civilization in order to escape almost certain annihilation", and the answer starts to take on a whole new meaning.
    Anyway, I'm not in favor of anything, nor am I claiming we need to support Bernie Sanders or anything like that. I just wanted to point out that there's more at stake here in the long run and we cannot get from "here" to "there" by holding on to our delusions. If we wish to achieve greatness, we must not ignore our responsibility to humanity, and when we're facing extinction, sometimes we've got to take a chance and decide to "boldly go where no man has gone before", step into the void (which is unknown), hike our pants up and put on our best Jean Luc Picard game face and stare down our fears.
    Dont, Ganado, VisuTrac and 5 others like this.
  11. mysterymet

    mysterymet Monkey+++

    Let’s list the jobs made obsolete... most data entry jobs, light industrial, some heavy industrial, many service jobs because of kiosks and self checkouts. Get your kids into engineering, trades like welding, mechanic, electrician etc. medical like doctor, nurse, etc is also a decent bet. Firefighter or law enforcement also are decent fields. We are in for a rough ride. I have an AI at work programming that thing is a real trip. So far it hasn’t replaced people but eventually it will.
    enloopious, Gator 45/70 and Brokor like this.
  12. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Recently, I stated I believe that doctors and teachers are a few of the professions that not only will be replaced my AI computers but will also do a much better job. Of course, they will never be completely replaced as there will always be some human oversight but...yeah, the day of robotics is already here and within the next few decades AI androids will make a major leap into society.

    But, about this UBI... I think it is all BS. Sounds good to the masses and the bleeding hearts but it will not happen - ever. I think WILL happen is at some point when AI robots and robotics have taken over a major portion of the work force and there is no longer a true purpose for those multitudes...well, what do you think will happen? Some how, some way, they will remove the knuckle-draggers with the large foreheads that no longer contribute to society and it will be bloodless...lots of ways to do it. We seem to forget that governments, including our own (especially our own!) are becoming more and more authoritarian and I don't think it's too far a stretch to say the future is a totalitarian government, more likely World totalitarian government so...Of course, this is all for the 'common good.'
    Dont, Gator 45/70, enloopious and 2 others like this.
  13. HK_User

    HK_User A Productive Monkey is a Happy Monkey Site Supporter

    Let the good times roll.

    Any fool that believes in a free lunch needs to bake the bread.
  14. First time I heard this was prez election 1972. Was appalled then. Dem's thought it was great. Oddly I think it was $1k/mo. then too.
    Gator 45/70 and enloopious like this.
  15. Tempstar

    Tempstar Praeclarum Site Supporter+

    Hmmm. An extra 12k a year would get me up to poverty level. Where do I sign up?
    Gator 45/70, HK_User, Brokor and 5 others like this.
  16. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    There can only be one. Off with all their heads. Winner takes all. Survival of the fittest. Back to basics. Grab your club caveman.

    Okay at this point, goto Youtube, Phil Collins, I don't care anymore!

    Sorry, too tired of the fight, take my head now! F you too. Your day is coming!
    Gator 45/70, HK_User and enloopious like this.
  17. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Can you use it to buy guns? Just thinking.....
  18. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I can tell you what will happen "watts riots"
    People demand more and more and because they get it they demand more and unfairness is expanded on, with nothing better to two than complain and rebel .
    Another thing is that with excess people will reproduce like rabbits. and we already have that problem with people on welfare now.
  19. T. Riley

    T. Riley Monkey+++ Site Supporter++

    Everyone gets a trophy. 3.8 trillion a year in the US. Pipe dreams.
    Gator 45/70 and HK_User like this.
  20. Wildbilly

    Wildbilly Monkey+

    Yeah! In 1972 George McGovern and the Dem's were buried in the biggest landslide in US political history by Richard Nixon! McGovern only won 1 state and that was Mass. I remember Johnny Carson joking that the SAC giving Santa permission to fly over every state, but Mass. that Christmas!
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
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