Ukraine - Victory, or A Lull Before the Storm?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by tulianr, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    The battle for Kiev may well be over, but is the battle for Crimea about to begin?
    • February 22 at 4:43 pm
    The bloody, protracted protests in Ukraine seem to have achieved their goals: Yanukovych is gone, new elections are due, and Yulia Tymoshenko, a key figure in Ukraine’s 2004 Orange Revolution, has been freed from prison. Ukraine looks as though it might have pulled back from the brink.

    If only it were that simple.

    While many in Kiev are celebrating today, the situation in some other parts of the country still appear tense. For an example, look toward Crimea. ...... Crimea, of course, is about as geographically far away from Kiev as you can get in Ukraine. A peninsula jutting into the northern tip of the Black Sea, the strategically located region has been conquered and fought over many times over the course of history. It was the site of much of the fighting in the Crimean War, for example.

    From the 18th century on, the region was part of Russia, but that changed in 1954, when the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union passed it from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, a decision that is still controversial in some circles. Today the peninsula might still be a part of Ukraine, but in many ways it is separate from the rest of the country: It has its own legislature and constitution, for example, and it's still very Russian: Some 60 percent of the population is ethnically Russian, with the rest being Ukrainian or Crimean Tatars.


    It appears that some members of this Russian community have regarded the events in Kiev with a mixture horror and opportunism: The chaos in Ukraine could finally be the region's chance to turn back to Moscow.

    RFE/RL's Robert Coalson recently went to Crimea and spoke to members of the pro-Russian separatist movement there. One politician he spoke to had the novel idea of leasing Crimea to Russia in exchange for a cancellation of Ukraine's debt to Moscow.

    Other politicians have expressed similar hopes. Volodymyr Konstantinov, the speaker of Crimea’s parliament, recently told lawmakers that the region may well secede if Ukraine's tensions begin to pull it apart. The parliament has also suggested that the region's constitution be amended to list Russia as the "guarantor" of Crimea's autonomy.

    The situation is complicated by the fact that many Russians view Crimea as part of Russia: one recent poll found that 56 percent of Russians view Crimea as a Russian territory – a far larger percentage than the number who viewed Chechnya, inside Russian federation borders, as part of Russia (39 percent). A few days ago, a Russian official told the Financial Times that if Ukraine began to get more chaotic, they would step in to protect the ethnic Russians and the Russian navy base on the peninsula. “If Ukraine breaks apart, it will trigger a war,” the unnamed official told the newspaper. “They will lose Crimea first [because] we will go in and protect [it], just as we did in Georgia.”

    The battle for Kiev may well be over, but is the battle for Crimea about to begin?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2015
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  2. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    Thank you for posting this. That whole situation over there is quite interesting. I don't see why Ukraine wants to join the UE because IMO the EU is not the most stable at the moment. Now with Crimea the article stated that the majority identify as Russians. What to do??? Crimea would be land locked if it went back to Russia, I think that would cause issues. They could keep their autonomy as they have now and instead of being under Ukraine laws they could do Russia.

    All I really am sure of is that the Olympics are now over and Mr. Putin no longer has to play gracious host. I think things are going be getting quiet interesting real soon. These people stole Putin's spotlight and he most likely is quite PO'ed.
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  3. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    The Ukraine is really 2 countries
    North and West of the country tend to cater to European customers and tourists and the south and east, they service russian interests.

    Right now the Ukrainians are flocking to Yanukovych's private 'Compound' and investigating where all the money that could have been used to support their country has gone.

    I got to give the Ukrainians credit. They are pretty orderly, not looting nor destroying a darn thing.
    Heck we have a hurricane, tornado or snow storm we bust in the window and grab the flat screen.




    how about his boat in his vodka bottle shaped lake in his front yard.

    To the citizens it's like a day at the museum.
    so orderly.


    In America, we'd steal the bathroom fixtures and light bulbs.
    especially if they are the old incandescent kind.
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  4. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Nice little cottage in the burbs.
    350 acres

    Attached Files:

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  5. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    I wonder how many of the current generation of Ukranians are concerned about a repeat of the past, like the...Dolomor?, the famine/genocide that Stalin ordered.
    chelloveck likes this.
  6. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    Oh and there's Chernobyl on the map, north and slightly west of Kiev. Nice...
  7. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    I'm sure that that part of Ukrainian history is etched deeply into the psyche of Ukrainians everywhere around the world. At least that has been the experience of Ukrainians that I have met.
  8. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    @VHestin They are actually having 'Tours' in Chernobyl. Lots of curiosity seekers with Geiger counters.

    Welcome to the gates of hell. Ok, the checkpoint before you get to the gates of hell.

    Here is the gate to Hell.

    So inviting, a city of industry and energy!

    Reactor 4 and it's sarcophagus that was scheduled to be replaced last year.

    Oh a fun ride. Well at least until you take a reading from the metal and the moss.

    Oh, the moss. pavement is clear. the moss is hot hot hot.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
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  9. VHestin

    VHestin Farm Chick

    @VisuTrac Well Darwin would be proud. I guess they're not worried about sterility or birth defects.
  10. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Putin orders military tests amid Ukraine tensions

    MOSCOW (AP) — President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday ordered massive exercises involving most of its military units in western Russia amid tensions in Ukraine.

    Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said in a televised statement made at a meeting of top military brass in Moscow that the exercise is intended to "checks the troops' readiness for action in crisis situations that threaten the nation's military security."

    In remarks carried by Russian news agencies, Shoigu said that the maneuvers involve over 150,000 troops, 880 tanks, 90 aircraft and 80 navy ships.

    He said the exercise was unrelated to the developments in Ukraine, where tensions remain high following the toppling of Russia-backed President Viktor Yanukovych.

    But he added that the exercise will be held near Russian borders, including the border with Ukraine. He also said, according to Russian news reports, that his ministry will take steps to strengthen security of the facilities of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula, without elaborating.

    Shoigu said Putin ordered the exercise Wednesday afternoon. During the first two days, the military will be put on high alert and some will deploy to shooting ranges.

    The actual maneuvers will start Friday and will last four days, he said. The exercise will involve ships of the Baltic and the Northern Fleets and the air force.

    Russia has questioned the legitimacy of the new Ukrainian authorities and accused them of failing to control radicals who threaten the Russia-speaking population in Ukraine's east and south.

    A senior Russian lawmaker on Tuesday told pro-Russia activists in Crimea that Moscow will protect them if their lives are in danger.
    (Emphasis mine)

    (This should sound familiar to folks in that part of the world. It was the same excuse used by Hitler to take control of the Sudetenland in 1938, and to invade Poland in 1939.)

    Putin orders military tests amid Ukraine tensions - Yahoo News
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  11. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus waiting for the incendiarist in the Kremlin to show their hand? Next the dissolving of the Duma, and then.....
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  12. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

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  13. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Hmmm Putin...Rasputin....I'm thinking that Vlad will come to a similar sticky end as his almost namesake Grigor! One can only hope.

    tulianr likes this.
  14. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Via: Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill calls Putin era a “miracle of God” | FaithWorld
    When Church and State form an unholy alliance, all things are possible!

    Putin had the Patriarch's back by throwing Pu$sy Riot into Jail, and now it seems Patriarch Kiril has Putin's back in dealing with The Ukraine. When the interests of churches and dictators are in alignment, ordinary people can look forward to a miserable existence. Kiril, it would seem has his eye on the "Jerusalem of Russo-Ukrainian Orthodoxy": The location of the Baptism of Rus, in Kiev. Action man Putin is just the guy to grant Kiril's exchange for the Church's grateful support no doubt.

    Russian Orthodox | Conger

    Battle of Orthodox Christian patriarchs as Ukraine's Filaret denounces Russia's Kirill
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  15. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

  16. tulianr

    tulianr Don Quixote de la Monkey

    Hypocrites of Kirill's ilk leave you hoping that there is indeed a place called hell.
    In Putin's Russia, little separation between church and state - Washington Times
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  17. bfayer

    bfayer Keeper Of The Faith

    looks like Putin has successfully annexed Crimea.

    Isn't that what Hitler did in 38 with Austria? The rest of the world just sat around and huffed and puffed and didn't do a dam thing. After all Austrians spoke German, so Germany had the right to annex them. You would think our leaders would at least read the history books.

    I wonder what President Obama's next move will be? Maybe a speech declaring peace for our time, or do we have to wait for the UN to give the ok for that?
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  18. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    As seems to be par for the course I have a completely different take on this from what the media is telling us to believe.

    I don't see what the problem is. The Crimea was always part of the Soviet Union. They put it under Ukraine's jurisdiction before the collapse of the Soviet Union at a time when it didn't matter, they were all part of the USSR. After the break up of the Soviet Union Ukraine continued to administer the region.

    When the US orchestrated "democracy" protests overthrew the government and installed an anti Russia one who would have thought that Russia would not be concerned. The Crimea is made up of primarily Russian people, it is home to one of Russia's only deep water ports. A good portion of their oil and gas flows through the region. They would have been stupid not to move to protect it.

    We are all for democracy, as long as people vote for who we want them to. If the people of the Crimea vote to re-join Russia who are we to say it is an invalid vote and we won't recognize it? The people of the Crimea have the right to determine their future just as the people fighting the regime in Kiev fought to determine theirs. We support one (who is pro western) but we condemn the other (which is pro Russia). Can you spell Hypocrisy?

    And the comparison to Hitler invading Austria or Poland just doesn't hold water. The people there didn't want them there. They didn't vote to become part of Germany, they weren't Germans.

    Once again the US is getting embroiled in the domestic affairs of foreign countries. I see Obama trying his hand at "The Great Chess Game" of international manipulation and he isn't even qualified to play checkers, maybe not even tiddly winks. All of that pro western democracy movement smacks of behind the scenes cold waresque operators manipulating the pieces. Obama tried to play with the big boys and got slapped down.

    I say the Crimean people have every right to secede from Ukraine and join Russia if they want and Russia has every right to protect the ethnic Russian majority there and to protect their national interests.

    We would do the same thing. Well if we had a real president we would. Right now Russia could actually invade and seize sovereign territory, like Alaska, and the dunce of a president we have now would only protest to the UN or make speeches and cry about it.
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  19. Mechwolf

    Mechwolf Monkey+

    I tend to agree with Minuteman. [ditto]
  20. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    It's been bothering me that zero and his sycophants are wringing their hands over Crimea which has really been Russian for well over 200 years. If Crimea wants to rejoin Russia, that's fine with me. The Ukraine is a different kettle of fish stew. That former head of state that hauled butt to Moscow after brown nosing Putin bailed on his constituents that actually put him in place. Ukraine has often expressed interest in leaning west along with other former USSR clients, and I think they should determine their own fate with us simply sitting it all out and watching.

    Gotta say, all this bugling about how that election was unconstitutional or illegal makes me wonder whose constitution or law is being broken? Kerry should sit TF down and bolt his upper lip to his lower.
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