Ukraine - Victory, or A Lull Before the Storm?

Nothin' like a hot war to fix a floundering economy though.
Never let an incident go to waste I hear.

 

I really don't care about Crimea one way or the other.

Here is where I am coming from, we had a agreement with Russia to disarm Ukraine and in turn Russia agreed to respect Ukrainian sovereignty. What is going on is Russia has violated the agreement that they signed with our current president in 2009. Putin has basically told Obama "Screw You".

Should we have agreed to preserve Ukrainian sovereignty? probably not, but we did. So what now, are we just going to let Putin spit in our face? This is happening because Putin sees our current President as a week spineless fool, and if we let him get away with this, he will not stop in Crimea. Have no doubt, Putin's goal it to rebuild the USSR one chunk of land at a time.

As far as Crimea being part of Russia, well I guess you could say the same thing about southern California and Mexico. If Mexico sent troops into California and ordered a special referendum to return southern California to Mexico, even though it violates the California state and U.S. Constitutions, would that be okay? Like it or not Crimea is part of the sovereign state of Ukraine, and if Crimea wants to separate than it needs to do it following their own constitution.

Like I said, I really don't care about Crimea, but I do care about our nation honoring it's agreements and not letting other countries push us around because they believe we have a wimp in the White House. We promised Ukraine that we would not let this happen, and the world it watching.

Our current President is turning out to be the most destabilizing force this world has seen in generations.

 

It is all that community organizing experience paying off. Nobammy is up against a willy and cunning real leader---and he is way out of his league. If the Crimeans voted for rejoining with Russia then what is the problem?

 

I also wanted to add that in my opinion, if it were not for President Obama, the uprising in Ukraine would not have happened. What is happening now was a foreseeable consequence of Obama's leadership.

The problem with Crimea voting to rejoin Russia is that whether we or anyone else likes it, Crimea is part of Ukraine, and we promised Ukraine we would defend their sovereignty against Russia. This whole thing is been driven by Russia to exploit the chaos in Ukraine.

If you take Russia out of the equation, I have no problem at all with Crimea deciding for themselves what they want to do. Unfortunately President Clinton and then Obama promised to keep Russia out of the Ukraine, and we are not doing that. Either we stand by our international agreements or we don't. Right now it appears we don't, and that is not good for our long term security.

 

LOL!!! You are so right on with your assessment of Obama. The sad thing is is that the rest of the world sees Obama clearly also. It seems like Obama expects Putin and Crimea to do what he wants just cause he disapproves.

I say the Crimean people have every right to secede from Ukraine and join Russia if they want and Russia has every right to protect the ethnic Russian majority there and to protect their national interests.

I completely agree with this. This is an issue between Russia and Ukraine, why is the US placing sanctions on something that is not our concern. As long as there is not mass killings then I say let them work it out.

 

It's because the U.S. promised Ukraine we would not let Russia do exactly what Russia is doing, we made that promise to get Ukraine to give up their nuclear weapons after the fall of the USSR. The only protection Ukraine had against Russia was the nukes.

I am not saying we should have, no one asked me. I am saying we did. So if we give our word to another country, do we keep our word or not?

I agree completely that we need to be staying out of other countries business, the problem is we didn't, and that leaves us with a mess to clean up. What our president should have done is go on international TV and tell the people of Ukraine that if they start a civil war, they are on their own, because our deal was with the constitutionally elected government of Ukraine, but he didn't, he doubled down and now we have a mess.

Here is an indisputable fact of human history, countries that are perceived as weak by their enemies, do not last, and a lot of people die in the process. Right now Russia sees us as weak.

 

They had an elected official and they ran him off. He could have unleashed the military in force upon the protestors but he chose not to. Other countries said don't do it and he complied. This also should be more of a Euro issue because they are next door and they depend on fuel from that region. I guess my greatest concern is that this does make us look extremely weak. The Russians are making fun of our leader, it is an embarrassment. Other countries are watching. BTW- Did Kerry really draw another red line?

 

Well Well, Just watched a few of the Big Flying machines practice chasing each other off the coast of La. Wonder what that means? Also they are headed to Texas. You monkeys out west had better hunker down !

 

Reading this makes me wish we were making more nuclear attack submarines

 

The saga goes on. What is the correct action, who is the bad guy, does a region have a right to secede? I find this all very interesting.

 

I don't disagree with you in general. This situation in Crimea is a little different, it's not just a secession. It was facilitated through the use of military force by a foreign state. Kind of like Mexico invading southern California, and then while the Mexican forces are standing next to him the Governor of California calls a vote to join Mexico.

The Ukraine has a constitution that gives autonomy to Crimea. The Crimean legislature adopted their own constitution by a majority vote. This Constitution accepts that they are part of Ukraine, and it does not allow them to secede form Ukraine. The Crimean legislature could have at any time voted in a new constitution that gave them the option of secession, but they didn't. Secession only happened at the point of a gun. Russia has no business being in Crimea any more than Mexico has any business being in California.

Like I said before I don't particularly care about what happens to Crimea, but I do care about how we (The U.S.) respond to what has happened. As far as I am concerned our leaders have dropped the ball. We should not make promises to other countries we don't intend to keep, but that is what happened. President Clinton made the promise, President Obama reaffirmed the promise and now we have shown the world again that our promises are worthless.

 

Given the 'foreign' involvement, my thought is that "What happens in Russia doesn't stay in Russia". History repeats itself because of the willfully ignorant people who refuse to learn from past events.

 

Virginia-based Private Soldiers in Ukraine
The Virginian-Pilot | Apr 10, 2014

Have security operatives from a Chesapeake-based company been injected into the tense standoff between Ukraine and Russia?

That's what Russia says.

In a Facebook post Tuesday, the Russian Foreign Ministry said about 150 Americans supplied by the private military company Greystone Ltd., a former affiliate of Blackwater, have been operating in southeastern Ukraine disguised as Ukrainian soldiers.

"The organizers and participants of this provocation assume responsibility for creating a huge threat to the rights, freedoms and the lives of innocent citizens of Ukraine and to the stability of the Ukrainian state," the ministry said, warning of imminent civil war.

The report has been picked up by several news outlets, including ABC and the Wall Street Journal, both of which quoted a Greystone representative denying the allegation.

A call to the company Wednesday morning was not immediately returned.
According to its website, Greystone began in 2004 as an affiliate of Blackwater, now known as Academi, which gained notoriety supplying private security operatives from its compound in Moyock, N.C., in support of U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

When Blackwater was sold by founder Erik Prince in 2010, Greystone was acquired by its current management and now operates as a standalone provider of aviation and protective support services and training, according to the website.

The company has offices in Chesapeake, Bermuda and the United Arab Emirates.

According to the website, Greystone has recently been awarded contracts for executive protection services in Russia and the Caucasus region of Eurasia, southeast of Ukraine.

Four former Blackwater security guards are awaiting trial on manslaughter charges arising from a 2007 shooting in Baghdad in which 17 Iraqi civilians died.

 

There is a certain delicious irony in this....regardless of whether the claim about Greystone is true or not.....and that is that the invasion of sovereign Ukrainian territory was carried out by non-descript russian speaking mercenaries, uniformed (sans nationality identification), accoutred, equipped and transported in a manner indistinguishable from the Russian armed forces. I guess, because the Russians haven't made a formal declaration of war, the LOAC don't apply to them.

Maybe Greystone should put on its Facebook how much feckin' cheek the Russian Foreign Ministry has in complaining about their (Greystone's) legitimate commercial arrangements with the Ukraine.

If I were Greystone, Id disguise the identity of their operatives in the Ukraine, if they have any, in Pu$$y Riot style ski masks...that should send Mad Vlad AND the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church into conniptions.


Clandestine interventionist troops invading The Ukraine....(no nationality or identification markings)



Ukrainian Pu$$y Riot operatives, training with their plausibly deniable (suspected) Amerikanskiyi trainer....who seems to be from Florida! Terrrible OPSEC.

Patriarch Kirril...WATCH OUT!

Meanwhile at the Kremlin guns and ammo show....


Watch for further developments when Vlad and Kirril take it to the next level....

 

Why hello Daly! It's so nice to see you back where you belong...