Ultimate no-maintenance AR

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Tango3, Jun 17, 2010.

  1. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    thousands of rounds no failures...blatantly Stolen from Latoc "security" thread

    These guys are in Oregon and like Noveske are doing their damnedest to push the AR beyond its limitations.

    I was just relayed first hand a story involving 8000 rounds in under two hours with zero malfunctions. The weapon was tested by soaking in saltwater for three straight weeks, shook off fired flawlessly, no rust. Additional claims are confirmed 10k rounds with no cleaning and no malfunctions. Testing has been taken beyond 100k rounds--with no malfunctions. No as in zero. Website videos and testimony by a gunsmith I trust here in Oregon confirms sniper grade accuracy---bowling pins at 550 yards. Muzzle flip is basically zero, follow up shots are instant. Requires no lube---ever.

    Apparently the secrets to ceramic coating have been unlocked.


    They are called Next Generation Arms. They make one rifle because, apparently, it just doesn't get any better.

    $2700 and unless you like CCA and Sopmod you gotta change the furniture. If this is all true, which I am going to sort out soon, the question of best SHTF gun is answered.

    MP168 | Next Generation Arms
  2. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    oooh... I likey. Did you see the video? that wep had practically no recoil at all..
  3. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Next Generation Arms
    11836 N. Tracey Rd.
    Hayden, ID 83835
  4. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    $2700 is a little steep. I see a huge problem with the products and valuations recently. These companies are WAY overpricing the presumed benefits. It's still a weapon, it can still fail as it's mechanical and it still only does the same thing in the same form factor as other AR's. The benefit, no cleaning/maint ever.. I hardly see that as a near doubling valuation of the product. I bought my Bushy for ~1k including tax. I put about 500-600 to put after market stuff on it. If I'm going to spend 3k on an AR-15, it better wipe my ass and give me reach arounds in the prone.

    So I didn't mention the jamming.. it's a new product.. the jury is out on different mags and bad feeds from the mag.

    Bushmaster ACR Standard=$2100
    NGA MP168 =$2700

    Really guys?
  5. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    Well, I am interested. I will give it some time before I consider a purchase, to see if the actual reports and claims are accurate since coating has long been controversial.
  6. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    I'm not saying I'm not interested in EITHER the ACR or the MP168.. I'm just not interested so long as the price is 2100 and 2700 respectively. Sub 2k and I'll seriously consider it.
  7. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    Wouldn't it hold true that almost any action not oiled would collect less debris and not jam or fail as much?

    It sounds that if this is oiled then it'll fail as any other firearm. Obviously thespecial ceramic allows it to slide better without lubrication, but does the ceramic coating wear out? If the rifle is dropped or banged hard will the ceramic chip or crack?
  8. KHAN

    KHAN Monkey+++

    Sounds like an expensive AK to me. (PS...I know its an AR, but the AK already is the all environment rifle)
  9. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Then you add accuracy to it.. ;)
  10. Rourke

    Rourke Monkey++

    If money was no object - it would be sittting in my gun safe right now.

    Looks awesome. Just have to prioritize and see if it would fit in my budget.

    Truely awesome firearm.

  11. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    For $2700, I would rather build a high quality AR with a DI system and spend the extra $2000 on ammo and optics. $2000 would buy a lot of ammo.

    If you need to shoot 8,000 rounds in a couple minutes.... you chose poorly or really need some new tactics.

    ETA: With $500 worth of ammo, most everyone can figure out what a DI needs to run. Call it a trial and error training exercise. No need to clean it for those 500 rounds.... just run it and oil it.
  12. NGA Gunsmith

    NGA Gunsmith Monkey+

    I'm not sure where the 8000 rounds in a couple of minutes figure came from. If someone has the source I would be interested to hear from them. We have put 15 30 round magazines through the gun full auto with zero failures. Our rifles work as described and the ceramic coating has not worn out on our test gun with over 12,000 rounds through it over a period of a few years. We have officers on the Oregon coast that keep their rifles in the trunk of their patrol car and have shown no signs of rust to date. I agree that our rifles are a large investment and no they are not your average plinking gun. Most of our customers are looking for a top end gun with very little maintenance and easily controlled shooting. Our gun feels completely different when you shoot it. You really have to try one to understand what I am talking about. I didn't believe the owner when he told me the same thing but I did after I shot it. If you guys have any further questions, I would be happy to answer them.
  13. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    Well, there you go... straight from the horse's mouth. Thanks for clarifying and welcome to the forum!
  14. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    I'm sure there are questions concerning the durability of the ceramics with regards to impact resistance, but you say this is a coating. How thick is the coating and are there any solvents that do harm to it?
  15. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    NGA Gunsmith:

    Adding to the questions list, then. How does the ceramic affect the need for lubrication? (Sorry, but I have my doubts about the advertised no lube required, it does NOT fit with my preconceived notions about wear.) Is there, or will there be, a plain jane version available?

    And welcome aboard.
  16. jungatheart

    jungatheart Beginner's Mind

    Even if it's half true, it's a great gun. 3/8 MOA holy sh!t! From the videos, it looks like it recoils straight back without muzzle climb.

    I'd sell my ex-wife just to shoot one.
  17. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    I have a question, your local to me when can I stop by and see one?
  18. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    I'd be very intressed in the 308 model when ready. Any idea when it will be available for sale?

  19. NGA Gunsmith

    NGA Gunsmith Monkey+

    Impact resistance and coating: The exterior coating can withstand a 1/2" ball bearing impact (weight attached to drop faster). The weight at impact is 250 lbs and makes a pretty good dent in the sample metal sheet. The depth of the impact crater is 1/2 the diameter of the projectile. It showed no cracks or peeling. The interior coating is more flexible than the outside coating. We coat all our springs in it and you can bend the springs backwards and it doesn't chip or peel off. It maintains its flexibility. Because there are three different types of coatings, they all differ in thickness. The maximum thickness of the coating is 1-2 mils. Unlike a regular surface coating our ceramic coating impregnates the pores of the metal and hardens as it is cured. You have to remove metal to remove the coating. It's really on there. One reason why our bolts run dry in the receiver is because as the ceramic polishes smooth on the surface, friction is greatly reduced. The other reason why is because the interior coating is self-lubricating.

    Solvents: I do not know of any solvents that harm the coating. We use non-chlorinated brake cleaner in the factory to blast off gunk when doing inspections (some guys forget that their guns don't need oil after breaking in and keep oiling them. It doesn't hurt anything, just makes the guns really dirty).

    Basic version of rifle: We used to produce one called the Patriot. It was a great gun but I will explain in detail why we dropped it. We are not Colt and don't have the ability to make all our own parts in house. (We make as many as we can with our 5 person staff). When we get out of house parts we have to degrease them ultrasonically, remove the original manufacturer's metal treatment, and apply ours. Then we can begin normal assembly. It takes us three times longer to produce on gun as compared to ordering a Del Ton kit and just assembling it. The coating is expensive and time consuming to apply. We were actually taking a loss on our two base models when machine time, payroll, and inventory was factored in. We could not afford to keep producing them. Yes I believe there is a market for a bare-bones coated AR-15 but we need to make all the parts in house to be able to pull it off. Maybe down the road we will look at it again.

    Shop visitations:
    We used to allow visitors on a limited basis but due to our small staff we were finding that we were being pulled away from what we do best, make rifles. When visitors showed up at our previous shop we would talk on average for 30 minutes to one hour per visit. Sometimes we would have eight people stop by in a week. We have now adopted the policy of being a closed shop but you can view our guns locally at Center Target Sports in Post Falls Idaho. If you are not in the area you can click on our dealer locator button (top left on home page).

    .308 Model: I am a diehard fan of the .308 and actually had to warm up to the 5.56. I have been asking the boss this same question about once every two months. The short answer is this: We just don't have the machining capacity or staff to take on a whole new product line yet. If we make a .308, we want to use our lowers, not someone else's. There is going to be a lengthy R&D period prior to product release so it will be a while at this point. It is on our list so be patient!

    Sorry for the lengthy post. Let me know if you guys have any further questions.
  20. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    Awesome feedback. Thanks for your time, effort and patience. It's a shame the only decent gunsmithing school near me is in P.A. (I'm in NY). I was considering moving from software development to GS but there are no schools near me. Your company sounds like a great place to work.. hard working, creative.. my type of people :)
survivalmonkey SSL seal        survivalmonkey.com warrant canary