NGA-G- Good answers, so far. -Have you considered in taking existing, already owned "experienced" rifles (uppers and or lowers) and coating them? I need another <acronym title="AR-15">AR </acronym>like I need food poisoning. -Are the bores and chambers coated as well as the moving parts and static surfaces? (4 mils gets significant, 2 on each side internally.) I might have missed something and just didn't see it. -I assumed from your answer above that all the internal surfaces are also coated, that is to include the hammer and firing pin. With the 12000 rounds tested so far, how are the striking surfaces holding up? -Why do you rule out Wolf ammo? The polymer coating has shown no ill effects in my ARs, where the old lacquer coating was a PIA. Worth the mention, perhaps: I have some Herter's .45 cal that appears to be repackaged Wolf. I have not seen Herter's in 5.56 or .223, but would not be surprised to find it's out there. If you don't recommend Wolf, you might want to check and see if adding Herter's to the "no use" list would be a good idea.
Uh-oh. Galileo (or was it DaVinci?) would love to talk to you about that -----. I'm almost old enough to have been present when he dropped the feathers and shot off the leaning tower of Pisa. Not quite, tho', I had to read about it. (OK, guys, take your best shots ---)
NGA, I currently have three AR10 type rifles(One an Armalite, and two are DPMS's) that I have had the barrels, bolt/Bolt carrier's melonited, which is the modern day version of case hardening. The melonite process also makes the metal virtually rust proofed. So, my questiopn is, what advantages does your ceramic coating have over the melonite process that constitutes such a high price for your rifles?
I think the intent was to say "we tried to make a greater impact against the surface".. yes I'm still not feeding you any peanuts
Got you at the same time, eh? Yep, he increased the impact energy by adding weight, not speed. (And I know that you know that he knows it, too.)
yeah.. ya got me. I gotta stop these 36 hour programming sprints.. makes it super hard to even form sentences much less type them out
Coating other people's guns: We have coated other AR-15 rifles and have done retrofits in the past. If we have time in the future it may still be an option but we are getting set to double our production numbers in our new facility without adding any new people so I will be a busy guy. Are the bores and chambers coated? Yes. Our test barrel after passing the 10,000 round mark looks amazingly new. When we gave the test barrel and a brand new barrel to customers that visited the old shop, they had a difficult time guessing which one was the used barrel. On top of that when asked how many rounds they thought were shot through the used barrel they gave numbers like 1000, or 2000 rounds max. Striking surfaces: All of the striking surfaces have held up very well. I have not had a single gun come back because of a broken firing pin or hammer yet. Of course the parts show normal wear but the ceramic is still on them. Why do you rule out Wolf ammo? I tell people that they can shoot whatever they want through their gun but if its not brass cased ammo, it will void the warranty. Steel on steel is harder on things than brass on steel. I have only found a problem with lacquer coatings with rapid firing but the primer sealant compound still tends to gunk up the firing pin hole after a while. Here's what I tell customers on the phone that ask the same question: "If you just bought a brand new Ferrari sports car and went to the gas station to fill it up, what would you put in the tank? Would you fill it with the lowest grade fuel possible or would you fill it with premium? Melonite case hardening process: The main advantage that you get with our ceramic over a surface hardening process is increased heat dissipation. Ceramic by nature is a very pours material and acts like a set of micro cooling fins all over the metal parts. When we did the 15 30 magazine full auto test, the gun heated up in its usual spots but then moved the heat to the cooler areas in a rapid amount of time. Even the buttstock tube and buffer absorbed some of the heat coming off the upper and barrel. Within ten minutes it was cool enough to touch. The other thing that our ceramic can do that heat treating can't is to withstand a blow torch until the metal turns cherry red without affecting the ceramic (barrel coating only). We applied a special rapid heat dissipation coating on the barrel because its the first thing to heat up during rapid fire. What we nicknamed our machine gun coating does what I described above but it does it at three times the rate of the receiver coating. (I don't mean to bash other processes by the latter statement, I am just trying to create a contrast. I still have many old fashioned wood and iron guns and will never change them.) "The melonite process also makes the metal virtually rust proofed." Are you confident enough to soak your bolt in salt water for a few days and leave it outside on the back deck for the rest of the week to make sure? I am confident that our guns will hold up to the worst weather conditions because I have taken mine out in them. The Oregon coast gets a lot of rain and has a very high salt water content. My 1911 that I had just blued at gunsmithing school rusted within two months (yes I coated it after it rusted up). The Next Gen gun that I built went with me every time I went out in the woods and it was raining more than half the time. It got soaked. I wiped off the outside surfaces and let the inside dry before putting it back in my safe. It still shows not signs of rust two years later. On a personal note, here's why I like our rifles: I am a regular guy with an above average propensity to destroy things through normal use. I am very demanding on my stuff but I take care of it through maintenance. I wore my first pair of Danner boots out in six months. I broke a Blackhawk holster that I carried every day in less than a year. My carry gun has to be rock solid and tough. I don't worry about scratches or banging it accidentally while walking around because it its a tool. So is my personal defense carbine. Often times I keep the defense carbine where temperatures are less than ideal (ie. car trunk) for extended periods of time. I don't like having to worry about what's going to happen if I accidentally put it in the trunk with some moisture still in the aciton. Most guns would be a rust bucket after a week in those conditions. I like knowing that my NGA rifle will be there ready to go no matter what the conditions are like or if I forgot to oil it or clean it. It doesn't care, it just keeps working. My wife tried to steal it BTW. Keep the questions coming if you have them.
what's up with the recoil ( or lack there of). What did you do to the wep in the video that made it look like you were shooting a .22 instead of an AR?
Well, how we accomplished it is not rocket science. Actually the buffer we use is sort of rocket science. Through our use of specific components we have been able to eliminate approximately 60% of the felt motion of the gun and 40% of the muzzle flip. We use a very effective muzzle break/compensator, a hydraulic buffer, and a mid-length gas system to tame most of the perceived recoil. The gun is louder than heck with the compensator we use but after a few hundred rounds you start to get used to it. It's funny watching people shoot it for the first time. They pull the trigger and move forward slightly in anticipation of normal recoil. They shoot a second time and give us a look like, "Where's the recoil?" The third shot they have a grin on their face and start blasting away. If I could set up an indoor shooting range at gun shows we would sell out of these guns. They really are like no other AR-15 I've ever seen. There has been a lot of research and development go into this rifle system that most people don't see just by looking at the gun. Even some of our dealers that have been selling them for a few years still don't fully know what they have on their shelf. It took me a year in the factory to understand just how much goes into one of these guns. They are hand fit by the master gunsmith to achieve the tightest upper to lower fit possible without compromising field serviceability. Some of our customers specifically request a fit so tight that you have to use a hammer and punch to pop out the rear takedown pin. People have told me at gun shows that they could do the same thing just by buying the parts that we use and putting them into their gun. I'm sure it's possible with the components but the hand fitting of the receivers is a different ball game. The ceramic coating is as well. The components are only 1/3 of the overall performance. I'm sure they would learn a lot about AR's by doing a project like that though.
Thanks for your responses. So far, there is no mention of configurations other than the 14-1/2 inch barrel with a fixed flash hider. Will there eventually be other configs available (e.g. 20 inch HBAR)? Your FAQs indicate it isn't necessary from an accuracy standpoint, but that doesn't answer the question, it simply says "NO." Your vids show a suppressor in use, which would take a longer barrel to allow field changes for us civvies. There is nothing I could find about alternative versions (e.g. stripped) that could make this thing fit my wallet better since I would not need more than a top rail to start. I'm not likely to get into combat unless zombies lay siege to me up here on the hill. Is it fair to assume that standard mags from the usual sources will be trouble free (within "normal" problem rates, anyway.) How long is NGA in business? Are there any recommendations for breakin? You are in need of an east coast stocking dealer. In spite of my lack of "need" I'd like to see one up close, and Missouri is a mite far from here for a maybe trip, even if you did tours.
NGA, as much as I would like to commend your line of rifles, I will also have to also be very critical at the same time. See, what I do not understand is why your shop spends so much time hand fitting and producing MBR's as ultra precise DMR/Sniper's rifles, and yes I have spent my time in the "Sandbox" and never once did I see any US service member armed with a 5.56 weapon for long range engagements, 7.62 Nato and larger is the norm, and for the times that I had to engage "Haji" on a personnel level was at very short distances which every time required me to use the snap shootin' technique which does not allow for the time to for precise aimed fire. Now as for your proprietary ceramic coating, I am definitely sold on it, and as I have stated before, I have three AR10 rifles that have been Melonited, which would be a perfect match for your ceramic coating process, but as Ghrit has stated above, I also need another AR like I need a hole in my head also and I have much better uses for $2,700.00, so my question is would you provide your ceramic coating processes for those of us that have our own rifles?
Certain ceramics are actually very good at dissipating heat. They've been used on the space shuttle specifically for the extreme heat during re-entry.
Hate to disagree, but the shuttle coatings are insulating. They prevent heat from getting into the structure. I believe that at least some of the tiles are ablative (sacrificial) and get shed on the way thru the atmosphere, and in that way carry off heat. That said, I don't doubt that some ceramics are conductive, I've just never heard of any other than the one NGA is using.
The TPS on the shuttle has several layers, and yes, the ceramic is insulating as a function of heat dissipation. They are very porous materials and don't transfer heat very well. If you'd like, I can get a 100% verification from a friend of mine who works at NASA and literally is a Rocket Scientist.
Which was my point. NGA says they use it for rapid cooling, not insulation, which sorta tells me it's intended to enhance, not retard, heat flow.
I see your point. Yes, I agree with you on that matter. I think what he's trying to say it that the use of the ceramics is to rapidly dissipate heat from the coating which prevents heat transfer to the barrel. It's being erroneously referred to as "Rapid Cooling", but those who don't care would not get past those semantics.
