US on brink of civil war?

In the last Civil war we fought over states rights. Some states felt they could not do without slavery so the battle lines were drawn around slavery and to be more precise those who opposed it and those who wanted it. What is the turning point today? Is it Socialism? communism? Globalism? What are we going to unite around. With so many grievances going right now is there one common one everyone would get behind? Do we fight to keep the constitution or do we fight to write a new one? I am serious gents. There is not one single issue that everyone would get behind. For Me the issue is liberty. MINE. Individual Liberty, freedom to live my life as I see fit. The younger folks today all seem to want free lunch. How do we explain to them that freedom is more important? History is being rewritten to brainwash our kids against us. Today they see our founders as criminals who broke the laws of England . I am looking for a leader. If it all comes apart Ill follow my state of Michigan as long as the leadership is constitutional. If they start re educating people in camps or trying to take our guns Ill fight. I will oppose any and all foreign intrusions. But who is our John Connors?

 

Heraclitus: “Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”

 

It is a strange situation is it not...But, I do think people will fight but they have to be threaten. They have to have a reason to place their lives and fortunes on the line. The purpose has to be clear not muddy. What is to be lost and what is to be gained by fighting for it. And, when I say fight I mean Civil Disobedience. But, most people are fed, housed and clothed. They have the three basics of life...take any one of those away and they will push back. The government and the ruling elites know this. They are far from stupid most having attended the best universities in the land. And, yes, they "slow(ly) chip away at beliefs and rights" and small step by step they obtain their goals and agendas, increasing their hold on the country. It's nothing knew. Everything Adolph Hitler did the same thing and it also was completely legal.

But, I too believe there is a 'tipping point' coming. My guess is that it will be economics that will finally change America, loosen the federal fetters and bring back some common sense.

Since I return stateside I have found something very strange is happening. It's a game I play now. I find most Americans no longer trust their government AND they feel that something BIG is going to happen. I sort of ping people on this whenever I get the chance to test my theory. I find this very strange...and it crosses gender, race and age groups. The people know something is on the verge of happening, it will be life changing, but it is not a threat yet so they do not act. But, I believe they will.

Rick

 

Exactly, Leadership. Who is our John Connors ? Our George Washington? Who is our Andrew Jackson? Who opposes the world order, the U.N. resolutions that are beginning to oppress us? Who stands for our sovereignty? WHO SUPPORTS MY LIBERTY? I look around and I dont see this man.

 

Yes...leadership, that magical ingredient that is a huge force multiplier. It seems any leader that we might have is quickly bought and paid for and the strings quickly attached. Perhaps a leader will come from the young and poor, one who is filled with passion and idealism (like a Fidel Castro? God help us!) but the country is so complex that experience and education is also needed. I wonder why people don't like Rand Paul or his father...guess it's lack of charisma but both have proven themselves.

Rick

 

@BTPost , I agree many of our special forces and special Ops guys meet those qualities but they are not national leaders. It is my opinion that we need a more prominent leader. A famous General or elder statesman , Perhaps a strong Governor or even Some one who is just very well known or popular. Clint Eastwood for example and Im not saying Clint could or would do it. But he well known , has the image of strength like Chuck Norris. Where is our John Connors?

And yes as Rick points out. Who cant be bought??

 

IMO the best way to tear this government back down to the foundation so we can rebuild it is to starve it for money. But of course that would take a lot of unity of purpose, risk and leadership at a national level, which as I think we all can agree is lacking, so I have been kinda rethinking this whole resistance paradigm.

What happens if we not only DON'T resist...but actually let them take the bit and run with it? What if we just let the libtards and the statists take over and do whatever the heck they want...spending as much as they want, printing as much money as they want, passing as many goofy laws as they want, oppressing anyone they want, breaking all the laws that they want? How long do you think it would take before they crashed and burned the whole thing themselves?

I know it wouldn't be pretty...but have we considered that perhaps the best way for us to "win" is to give them enough rope to hang themselves? Food for thought and discussion.

 

Does it not make more sense to do battle now so that the order does not stand and show our resolve now. I believe it makes sense to start now and not wait until the wolf is already at the door.

I'm all ears. Please tell what you are recommending or going to start doing now instead of waiting.

 

Legion489,
In my opinion, while your way is the logical approach, it just will not work with Americans. First, the Wolf in not at the door it is already inside the house dictating rules of engagement. Second, the people will not risk what they currently have even though it is a mere penitence (and not nearly what they should have) for some unknown and you cannot blame them: mortgages, children, insurances, debt, debt, debt... Things have to get worse. It has to come to a point where people will just say that little 2 letter word, "No." My fear is if it gets that bad, and let's not kid ourselves that unless it is stop that it will, we will we be so far gone that we cannot recover. The 'Bread and Circus' policies of Rome are alive and well in America and soothe and calm and delay the Plebs from saying that little dirty word. But, some day...and I hope I live to see it. Hell, the Bank of Scotland is saying super stock market crash this year.. - Rick

 

I started reading "Lives of the Signers to the Declaration of Independence" by Charles Goodrich (1829). I actually noticed it here on the forum where someone had posted a pdf of it and was so interested that I purchased it for my Kindle ($2, Amazon) so I could read it around the house and in bed.

The more I learn about those men and the more I learn of that era and what was really going on the more flabbergasted I am. I think we might be looking at the problem wrong in talking about a 'leader.' We don't need 'a leader' but leaders, plural, a lot of them. Men and women of education, experience and worth that can put country before all - family, race, religion, gender - and, cannot be bought. British General Gage tried to purchase Sam Adams who was in financial dire straits and was furious when he was refused.

For whatever reason, America, seems to have luck - maybe from all her Irish immigrants. It seems to me that whenever we are in great need and the outcome is in doubt we produce the leaders necessary to achieve our goals, to win. Not only our 1776 forefathers but throughout history, Andrew Jackson (1812), Lincoln (1861), and look at the Greatest Generation, FDR, Eisenhower, Marshall, and even Patton and Macarthur. Whenever our nation was threaten these leaders were found and stepped forward. Call it 'In God we Trust' or whatever but I believe we can and will find those leaders when the time comes. Rick

 

So long as they can kept the nation divided, it will never happen.
People are so selfish that unless they agree on every point,(relevant or not) they will not commit.

 

The "great unifier" just isn't there IMO. Our founders had a wide spectrum of opinion and ideas, but they had the unifier of "taxation without representation". We have everything they wanted, and "we the people" have squandered it away like a rich trust fund kid that never earned a dime in his life.

Sadly another issue is that we have moved away from the melting pot concept to the salad bowl concept making it even more difficult to get folks united on the same front. We had great thinkers that founded our nation. They had differing views but for the most part they were all "Godly" and most of them thought critically and with reason and not just passion. They could work together and achieve great things even though they had differing views on how to get there. BUT if there never was a Lexington Green moment, we would still be bitchin and moanin about the King.

I am a firm believer in Mike Vanderboegh's vision of the 3%. But sadly many who have taken to wearing the 3% patch are not following what the movement began on and they want to take the offensive. They have the number 3% in their head but they forget about the 33% support the original 3% had, and the 33% of non-committed to anything that didn't get in their way. IMHO we have had Lexington Green moments... But in those cases, the 33% number was no where to be found.

We have to educate the masses and our congress critters that bureaucracies are indeed a form of "Taxation without representation" and coherently expose the abuses carried out by them in the name of Federal Gov. We have to build up that 33% support by having a positive professional presence. We have to emulate what the original 3% did leading up to Lexington green. Because of the training and because they had a communication plan they were able to get thousands of militia to Concord without a single cell phone, a single car, etc etc. and be EFFECTIVE.

Until we get to that point, we're just mouse farts in the wind.

 

@Garand69,

"Farts in the wind" I think you are selling yourself and most Americans, especially the young ones, short because I think the numbers are bigger than you think. I think it will be proven this election. I think the numbers are huge. Americans know what is going on but most feel they cannot do anything about it.

In Central Asia we had this wooden shack outside where all the smokers congregated. And, in -20F or 120F, we all use to go there for the political talks even though most, including myself, didn’t smoke. There were very heated debates at times…even officers would come and join in to get the gray matter moving. In that Spring, we had some Reservists doing some work on the communications tower. There were six of them, out of New York, all young guys no older than 20 yrs old. The chat turned to voting and when asked all of them admitted that they didn’t vote and when asked why they said, “…because it doesn’t matter. It’s already decided. We can’t do anything.” I’ve seen it here also since I’ve been back. And, in many ways they are right. They cannot do anything about it but multiple them by a million and what happens?

@AR,
“People are so selfish that unless they agree on every point, (relevant or not) they will not commit.”
I have friends which don’t agree with me on a lot of things, such as Health Care, but we’re all committed and would vote and/or demonstrated if call upon for the other main points…and there are lots. Some don’t agree with me on the illegal immigrants and say it is impossible to move 12+ million out of the country. I say, I could care less, they have to go and they can move themselves back for all I care since they came here on their own power, return on your own. But, we’ll turn around and agree on other major points like the Federal Reserve, discarding the outdated tax code, etc… I truly doubt you will ever get two intelligent people to agree 100% on everything 100% of the time. And, it is tough to commit when you have children to feed and mortgages to pay, and credit debt… But, it will be the young (because their commitment are minimal that provide the main manpower…it always has and it always will.

“The "great unifier" just isn't there IMO.”
Not yet but it will be when the tipping point comes. What will it be? Who knows, probably something silly. Look, I do not know how old everyone is here but I was a kid during Vietnam but I do remember the fallout from it and anyone who lived it can attest that the public, led by its youth, forced the government to get us out of Vietnam. The public pressure was enormous: riots, demonstrations, burnings every day…when you walked outside people would flash each other the peace sign to see which side they were on. It was everywhere, on TV, radio, in our music, even our clothes and hair. It almost broke the nation in half, frankly I think it did and Kent State was the tipping point. It sure was a bit like the ‘Boston Massacre’, blood on the green - again… It changed a lot: Vietnam ended as did the draft, a volunteer force was instituted, a whole new string of professional politicians (yeah, I know) McCain, Kerry to name a few and change the entire mindset of the American people towards its government…

I think some of our questions will be answered with this election. Will we get a Congress that truly wants to work on our problems and puts its citizens first? And, a president that can lead and work with the Congress and demand they do their job as directed by those citizens?

@Garand69
“We have to educate the masses and our congress critters that bureaucracies are indeed a form of "Taxation without representation" and coherently expose the abuses carried out by them in the name of Federal Gov. We have to build up that 33% support by having a positive professional presence.We have to emulate what the original 3% did leading up to Lexington green. Because of the training and because they had a communication plan they were able to get thousands of militia to Concord without a single cell phone, a single car, etc etc. and be EFFECTIVE.”
In this, I agree. I agree with every word! But, of course, no guns, as any accident, would be a complete disaster and be put to use as propaganda and would ruin any movement… History shows non-violent revolution works, Gandhi is another good example but there are many…

Rick

 

As I oft say. If it is coming, please let it happen in winter.

 

Okay, VisuTrac, I'll bite. Why winter? So, doesn't interfere with fishing season?
Rick

 

@BTPost is exactly right. Then the only things out and about are either friends or foe. Not expecting company .. well .. odds are easier to determine.

 

I doubt that our John Connors is going to be a politician.