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Very true words from someone who knows

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pauly Walnuts, Jun 12, 2008.

  1. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    Middle East Imperative
    by James Cash, Brig. Gen., USAF, (Retired)

    I wrote recently about the war in Iraq and the larger war against radical Islam, eliciting a number of responses. Let me try and put this conflict in proper perspective.

    Understand; the curren t battle we are engaged in is much bigger than
    just Iraq. What happens in the next year will affect this country and how
    our kids and grand kids live throughout their lifetime, and beyond. Radical
    Islam has been attacking the West since the seventh century. They have been
    defeated in the past and decimated to the point of taking hundreds of years
    to recover. But they can never be totally defeated. Their birth rates are so
    far beyond civilized world rates, that in time they recover and attempt to
    dominate again.

    There are eight terror-sponsoring countries that make up the grand threat
    to the West. Two, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan just need firm pressure from the
    West to make major reforms. They need to decide who they are really going to
    support and commit to that support.

    That answer is simple. They both will support who they think will hang
    in there until the end, and win.

    We are not sending very good signals in that direction right now,
    thanks to the Democrats.

    The other six, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea and Libya
    will require regime change or a major policy shift. Now, let's look more

    Afghanistan and Iraq have both had regime changes, but are being
    fueled by outsiders from Syria and Iran. We have scared Gaddafi's pants off,
    and he has given up his quest for nuclear weapons, so I don't think Libya< /FONT> is
    now a threat.

    North Korea (the non-Islamic threat) can be handled diplomatically by
    buying them off. They are starving. That leaves Syria and Iran. Syria is
    like a frightened puppy. Without th e support of Iran they will join the
    stronger side. So where does that leave us?

    Sooner, or later, we are going to be forced to confront Iran, and it better
    be before they gain nuclear capability.

    In 1989 I served as a Command Director inside the Cheyenne Mountain
    complex located in Colorado Springs, Colorado for almost three years. My job
    there was to observe (through classified means) every missile shot anywhere
    in the world and assess if it was a threat to the US or Canada. If any shot
    was threatening to either nation I had only minutes to advise the President,
    as he had only minutes to respond.

    I watched Iran and Iraq shoot missiles at each other every day, and all
    day long, for months. They killed hundreds of thousands of their people.
    Know why? They were fighting for control of the Middle East and that
    enormous oil supply.

    At that time, they were preoccupied with their internal problems and
    could care less about toppling the west. Oil prices were fairly stable and
    we could not see an immediate threat.

    Well, the worst part of what we have done as a nation in Iraq is to do
    away with the military capability of one of those nations. Now, Iran has a
    clear field to dominate the Middle East, since Iraq is no longer a threat to

    They have turned their attention to the only other threat to their
    dominance, they are convinced they will win, because the US is so divided,
    and the Democrats (who now control Congress and may control the Presidency
    in 2008) have openly said we are pulling out.

    Do you have any idea what will happen if the entire Middle East turns
    their support to Iran, which they will obviously do if we pull out? It is
    not the price of oil we will have to worry about. Oil WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE
    to this country at any price. I personally would vote for any presidential
    candidate who did what JFK did with the space program---d eclare a goal to
    bring this countr y to total energy independence in a decade.

    Yes, it is about oil. The economy in this country will totally die if
    that Middle East supply is cut off right now. It will not be a recession. It
    will be a depression that will make 1929 look like the 'good-old-days'. The
    bottom line here is simple. If Iran is forced to fall in line, the fighting
    in Iraq will end over night, and the nightmare will be over.

    O ne way or another, Iran must be forced to join modern times and the
    global community. It may mean a real war---if so, now is the time, before we
    face a nuclear Iran with the capacity to destroy Israel and begin a new ice

    You may be one of those who believe nothing could ever be terrible
    enough to support our going to war. If that is the case I should stop here,
    as that level of thinking approaches mental disability in this day and age.It is right up there with alien abd uctions and high altitude seeding through
    government aircraft contrails. I helped produced those contrails for almost
    30 years, and I can assure you we were not seeding the atmosphere. The human
    race is a war-like population, and if a country is not willing to protect
    itself, it deserves the consequences.

    'Enough - said!'

    Now, my last comments will get to the nerve. They will be on politics.

    I am not a Republican. And, George Bush has made enough mistakes as
    President to insure my feelings about that for the rest of my life. However,
    the Democratic Party has moved so far left, they have made me support those
    farther to the right.

    I am a conservative who totally supports the Constitution of this
    country. The only difference between the United State s and the South
    American, third world, dictator infested and ever-changing South American
    governments, is our US Constitution.

    This Republic (note I did not say Democracy) is the longest standing
    the world has ever known, but it is vulnerable. It would take so little to
    change it through economic upheaval. There was a time when politicians could
    disagree, but still work together. We are past that time, and that is the
    initial step toward the downfall of our form of government.

    I think that many view Bush-hating as payback time. The Republicans
    hated the Clinton's and now the Democrats hate Bush.

    So , both parties are putting their hate toward willingness to do
    anything for political dominance to include lying and always taking the
    opposite stand just for the sake of being opposed. JUST HOW GOOD IS THAT FOR OUR COUNTRY?

    In my lifetime, after serving in uniform for President's Kennedy,
    Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, and Bush I have a pretty good feel for
    which party supported our military, and what military life was like under
    each of their terms. And, let me assure you that times were best under the

    Service under Jimmy Carter was devastating for all branches of the
    military. And, Ronald Regan was truly a salvation.

    You can choose to listen to enriched newscasters, and foolish people like
    John Murtha (he is no war hero), Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Michael Moore,
    Jane Fonda, Harry Reid, Russ Feingold, Hillary Clinton, Ted Kennedy, and
    on-and-on to include the true fools in Hollywood if you like. If you do,
    your conclusions will be totally wrong.

    The reason that I write, appear on radio talk shows, and do everything

    Pelosi clearly defied the Logan Act by going to Syria, which should
    have lead to imprisonment of three years and a heavy fine.

    Jane Fonda did more to prolong the Vietnam War longer than any other
    human being (as acknowledged by Ho Chi Minh in his writing before he died).
    She truly should h ave been indicted for treason , along with her radical
    husband, Tom Hayden, and forced to pay the consequences.

    This country has started to soften by not enforcing its laws, which is
    another indication of a Republic about to fall.

    All Democrats, along with the Hollywood elite, are sending us headlong
    into a total defeat in the Middle East, which will finally give Iran total
    dominance in the region. A lack of oil in the near future will be the final
    straw that dooms this Republic.

    However, if we refuse to let this happen and really get serious about
    an energy self-sufficiency program, this can be avoided. I am afraid,
    however, that we are going in the opposite direction.

    If we elect Hillary Clinton and a Democrat controlled congress, and they
    carry through with allowing Iran to take control of the Middle East,
    continue to refuse development of nuclear energy, refuse to allow drilling
    for new oil, and continue to do nothing but oppose everything Bush, it will
    be over in terms of what we view as the good life in the USA.

    Now, do I think that all who do not support the war are un-American---
    of course not. They just do not understand the importance of total victory
    in that region.

    Another failure of George Bush is his inability to explain to the
    American people why we are there, and why we MUST win.

    By the way, it is not a war. The war was won four years ago. It is
    martial law that is under attack by Iranian and Syrian outside influences,
    and there is a difference.

    So, what do I believe? What is the bottom line? I will simply say that
    the Democratic Party has fielded the foulest, power hungry, anti-country,
    self absorbed group of individuals that I have observed in my lifetime. Our
    educational system is partially to blame for allowing the mass of America to
    be taken in by this group. George Bush has done the best he can with the
    disabilities that he possesses.

    A President must communicate with the people. And, I would tell you
    that Desert Storm spoiled the people. Bush Senior's 100-hour war convinced
    the people that technology has progressed to the point that wars could be
    fought with no casualties and won in very short periods of time.

    I remember feeling at the time, that this was a tragedy for the US
    military. To win wars, you must put boots on the ground. When you put boots
    on the ground, soldiers are going to die. A President must make the war
    decision wisely, and insure the cause is right before using his last
    political option.


    Jimmy L. Cash, Brig. Gen., USAF, Ret.
    Lakeside, Montana 59922
  2. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Just one more mouth-piece explaining why we should choose between the lesser of evils. It is time to take a stand! Evil is evil; period. I will not be coerced into making the same mistake that elected GWB again! At least with democrats, we stand a chance of winning an armed revolt. We don't stand a chance against the neocom fascists that are in office today with their agenda to declare all constitutionalists as terrorists and federalizing every mom and pop police department in the country to subdue us. A good many of us are at the end of our patience and are just teetering at the brink of demanding our country back.
  3. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    That's a different view, not sure I'm on board but OK.
  4. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    The general makes a convincing speaker, but whether we democratize the middle east or not I believe our oil woes are inevitable.Thenewly installed Saudi/iranian/iraqi dept of energy will just use a different letterhead:
    " dear "current American president",Be assured I have recieved all 3 of your official requests to increase our current oil production to alleviate some of the economic pressure the American people are feeling.
    I regret to inform you our oil industry is already running 24hours aday/7days a week at full capacity. Threats of bombing us back into "prehistory" amuse us,You could get no more oil from our reserves than we can now. Your guns already pointed at the heads of our children..."my grandfather rode a camel ,My father rides in a mercedes, I fly a jet plane, my son will ride on a camel".
    If this war is so damn important get the truth out there and lets get on with it, basra gone, tehran gone,kabul gone damascus gone...
    and not by 200,000 marines kicking in one door at a time. casualties may be necessary but let's make the other poor sob die for his country. killing so we may have cheap transportation fuel for bloated vehicles and big screens is not noble.Dieing in an economic war is no longer noble.

    IF we go into the rest of the middle east it isNot going to be America vs Iran; we foolishly(arrogantly "eurocentrically") think those towel heads can't secure friendships and alliances on their own(?) .Russia and China are not going to sit idly by as we strangle them by taking the resources and directing them home first,with the rest of the world to collect the crumbs after the fat satan has drunk his fill..
  5. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    Economy is survival believe it or not? Lets say we do nothing with Iran and they gain control of the middle east and it's oil wealth. Next our society collapses under economical strain. The country is in chaos and the military is dwindled down to almost nothing. Do we think not one country would invade us? How many of millions would die from the situation anyway? Reality sucks, we have got so soft and we somehow think war is no longer needed. It's never going to go away until there is very little population on earth.
  6. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Here's some words from someone who knows too. I lived and worked in the Middle East for 14 years. You think they hate us because we're free? They envy our wealth? Pleeze.

    If they did one tenth of the things that our government has done to them in the last 100 years the people of this country would be livid and ready for war.
    How about going in and removing a leader? Ever hear of Mossedegh?
    Invading a soveriegn nation and installing puppet governments? How about arming and aiding a legitimate governments enemies?
    How about crowing for "democratic" elections and then ignoring the results of the vote when it doesn't please us?

    This "forcing" them to our way of thinking is what has gotten us into this mess. This nation building, colonial, mindset has caused us to go from one of the most admired nations in world history to one of the most despised.
    Our interference in the countries of that regions internal politics has led us to the point of having to "go to war" with them becuse they refuse to kow tow to us anymore.

    And we have become "soft" and won't defend ourselves? Against who? The leader of a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11? A leadership that was despised by Al Queda and targeted for overthrow?
    Yeah we sure needed to remove him.

    Bring democracy to a people who for thousands of years have been raised in a patriarchal society and taught to follow a strong leader?
    An exercise in futility at best.

    Our meddling in the ME and this mission to "democratrise" the region will go down in history as the most arrogant cluster...k in the history of the world.

    A nuclear Iran? Well we have to save poor little Isreal right? They have enough nukes to wipe the arabs off the face of the planet. But we shed American blood to fight thier wars while they sit back and promote neo-con BS like this to egg the stupid goyim on.

    It's time we started fighting our own wars, and that starts right here at home. While we're out bringing "freedom" to people on the other side of the world at the point of a gun we are losing ours here at home.
  7. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    Hell, we could have took that approach with Germany too then. Sure the world would be a great place now![ROFL]
  8. BAT1

    BAT1 Cowboys know no fear

    First of all, thanks for your loyal service. Thank you for engaging us. I hope you learn from us as we gain insight from you. This is definitely bigger than just one generation. This will affect how we all live from now on until we solve this problem. We can't debate how it got here, it's here. The 1000 lb gorilla is in the back seat of every car on the planet. The question is how do we shake him without destroying the planet thru turmoil. My proposal is to defuse Iran, by drilling here. If the oil companies have ripped us off, make them pay every body a rebate check. [Heck, they are big as the govt.] A lot of countries are trying to get their oil, if it is not us it will be China, or Russia or India. It takes ten years to get it to the pump if we drill now, so we better get started. Nuff said. Both parties have abandoned the American people. You are right on about the Constitution [Patriot acts, Habeaus Corpus, Posse Comma Tatus, Military Commissions act]. We know all these new laws and acts are unconstitutional and are basically null and void. Martial Law is unwinnable, you can not win in this area. Life will find a way to resist, why even try? Robots can't even do it. We are all waiting on good people like you to expose these criminals who have done this to this great country, even arresting them, and and we will back you up. In the mean time keep on learning what's the populace really wants, for a few good men to go in there and take their butts to the brig where they belong. In a matter of defending against domestic enemies we prepare. We have a small army ourselves. This is more realistic than fighting the whole world. I hope my nephew comes home from Afganistan to carry on the family name. Long live the Constitution!
  9. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    Nice post BAT1! Do not get me wrong , the gov't has been stripping the good people of this nations rights away for a while. I also agree with tapping our own resources. But this damned country wants their cake and to eat it to. Not going to happen. We have protesters vs drilling, protesters vs the war? But no one willing to walk or get a horse or bike? The ignorance bothers me, do you want the easy life or peace and a nice environment?
  10. overbore

    overbore Monkey++

    first I wish to thank you, Sir, for all you have done for us and to applaud your wisdom and insight sharing here. You have it about right as we have become "money and comfort first" in our thinking rather than God and country first. If we continue along this path, in my opinion, we are going to get the exact results every other nation has had that has pitched over into decadence and smashed itself into obscurity; ie..England and Italy. John Howard of Australia had it right; be loyal or be gone! We are infested with the PC traitors and socialists. The radical Muslims are here now in many forms and significant numbers from Saudi sponsored schools to radicals Imams in our prisons and military. I think we must have the impending tragedy before the remainder will wise up and start over back on the path of "In God we trust". I close with this biblical reminder: Any nation that removes God from its worship will have God remove His hand of protection from them". God Bless America, Overbore
  11. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    I hope I'm not coming across as adversarial here..We are a soft population I 'll grant you that ( seems to be an important point for you).
    If 50 divisions of chinese drove up the center of the country on thenew nassco super corridor to k city to unload 1000 containers ofarms and ammunition to take the us we would put up one hell of a fight( we'd be in the right).

    I've posted this video before:

    its an entertaining presentation of the history of the west in the middle east.

    Saddam was an evil, cruel bastid , the shah of Iran was worse guess what? We inflicted both of them on their respective countries( TheShah I'm cettain of. Saddam we certainly propped up).
    "Mosedegh" was a duly ELECTED leader of Iran who the u.s. toppled and was replaced by the Shah Reza Pahlevi (who set up the "savak" blood thirsty secret police. to stay in power).

    I believe others are entitled to their own country's. We continue to "dick"( no pun) with the world, like its our own sandbox.its "wrong" which is why we fight"soft" wars, if we were 100"% in the rigt ( i.e. WII) we could use our big toys without flinching.
    I'm sorry, as it is we are strong arming (stealing) the oil fields. for resources and to save and the us economy: The U.S. economy is based on us "petro dollar"s ( watch the video) All oil in the world was traded in us dollars until 1990(?) , Saddam backed out petro dollar system; Saddam was made example of.venezuela is not playing in dollars, the Iranians opened their own oil bourse ( market ) last march( 07?08?) )to trade oil in euros HEY GUESS WHO' NEXT inline for an FOR AN A$$ WHOOPING??
    They hate our freedom my fuzzy red baboon a$$.We are imposing our will on the rest of the world ,and kharma's a mofo...I don;'t know what"a "win" in Iraq looks like? nobody else seems to either...All I'm 100% sure of is we are not leaving...
  12. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    Do you guys think we fought Germany purely to help the Jewish people and Europe? The US new about the atrocities since 1939. Guys c'mon, it was about our free trade with Europe being taken away that was feared! All wars are about $$$$$$. Whether it's land, oil, shipping lanes etc... I understand that this is a necessary evil and sure I wish it could be different. The US want to insure a steady flow of oil before we tap our own oil, and we will when the "time is right". Oil is money and money is power.
  13. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Well there's IMHO an" honest"view there( certainly no offense)..Germany was a fascist regime bent on subjugating europe and Britain.(We jumped in: for trade or for humanitarian reasons;I guess there could be an argument in there.I think we'd all accept Iraq more so if they came out, explained it maybe admitted the plausibility of "peakoil"(oil depletion).Instead of trying an end run with the whole immediate wmd danger) stuff. People resent being "horn swaggled". As with all the subterfuge to discretely build am illegal some what dormant police state apparatus to be turned on(and "turned ON the American people at the stroke of a presidential pen)! We are not completely stupid...Theres much more here but my brain has turned into "cream of wheat", bedtime...

    All wars are about $$$$$$. (Have to agree there or at least involve $$$)..
  14. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    The Gov't has to "sell" the war to the general public. No one wants to admit they condone a war for $$ but yet they continually use oil? If your transportation runs on oil then you are part of the cause. Maybe very minimal but still part of it. Most people simply can handle the truth that we can not afford to let one country run the Middle East because it could negatively impact our economy. I'm a realist and just wish we arm our boys better over there, that's my biggest beef.
  15. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    I'd imagine it's not just the US populace to be"sold"on the war.If we played hardball and just rolled up and seized the oilfields the rest of the world(read China/Russia) would get pretty upset with us and stop buying securities.(our debt.),orfeel threatened. Hey, I think I just had an epiphany of sorts; its all so clear to me now thanks for hashing this out!( makes sense now)..
  16. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    Good points!
  17. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Now that I can agree with. But the original post that started this thread was not in that vein at all. It was a standard fluff piece echoing the current propaganda.
    We're there to bring democracy to the region and to help the poor and mistreated people of the region, bring peace and safety here at home,blah blah blah, BS.
    We are there because of oil and the threat that Saddam Hussien posed to our economic interests.
    We did not invade Iraq because of Al Qaeda, 9/11, weapons of mass destruction, or any other smokescreen excuse.
    If George Bush had of come out and said, "Look, Saddam Hussien is taking his oil off of the dollar, and threatening to cut off supplies to us, and influence his nieghbors to do so too. So we have to stop him or else our whole economy will come crashing down."
    Then I would have probably siad "Ok, if we have to to protect our way of life, then let's do it."
    But no we are lied to with imlplausible excuses and our government expects us to be so gullible as to swallow whatever ludicris lies they feed us and go along with it.
    That's what I was railing against. When someone lies to you they are saying "I think your stupid enough to believe what I am telling you."
  18. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    My bigest problem with it is thaton top of useing their lies as to why we are there in the first place (could kind of understand the reason to put it in terms the sheep will comprehend because he Sadam DID have a WMD that could destroy us...strong influence over oil and was useing threats about it to 'terrorize' others but the sheep will not recognize that threat) but then they turn around and use the war to justify takeing away rights of our people here at home.
  19. Pauly Walnuts

    Pauly Walnuts Monkey++

    I agree their the patriot act is not good for the American people. I want to win this war and love America. But do not invade everyones privacy!
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