Vet charged with murder for killing robber

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Minuteman, May 27, 2009.


  1. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Seacowboys, I would have to agree with you, with what you and I have seen from the videos, with one exception. This perp was not the one with the gun. The two perps only displayed that one gun. We had no audio so I can't say one way or the other as to whether the perp fired it. The pharmasist says that both perps fired at him. We know from the video that is wrong. The perp with the gun escaped and was later captured by police. Some say his gun was never loaded. Again, that may or not be true for when he entered the store. I personally think getting a second gun and empting it into an unarmed man down is wrong. Monday morning quarterbacking or not. Problem is, he is being charged with first degree murder, not first degree manslaughter. There is a HUGE difference when it comes to sentencing if he is found guilty. I think the DA is totally out of line there. Manslaughter yes, Murder no!
     
  2. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    I have seen the front sight vid it is the same survielance footage shown on local media. The thing it does not show is the guy on the floor. How can we judge this mans guilt when we cannot see what he was seeing. He is the only one who knows exactly what was happening in that room.
    We have come to rely too much on video "evidence" in this technological world. This video is not difinitive.
    That is my point. Lacking any evidence to the contrary, we have to accept this mans interpretation of the events. We have to give him the benifit of the doubt.
    And if you watch the video closely you will see, he comes back in the store ( with an empty revolver), looks at the guy on the floor, goes over to a drawer and gets a loaded gun ( a Kel-Tec .380) and walks back to the guy on the floor. At this point according to him ( the only witness even counting the video) the perp is trying to get up and is turning on his side and he thinks, reaching or a weapon. He fires again.
    I don't see how we can find fault with those actions. Would anyone here walk up to a wounded robber with an empty gun? Would anyone here pat the wounded guy down to see if he had a weapon? Would anyone here not fire again if they thought they were about to die?

    Quoting Jerome Ersland "he started turning to the right. I'm crippled. ... I thought I was going to get killed in the next few seconds"

    And remember that Oklahoma is a "Stand your ground" state. There is no provision in the law that requires you to run away from a threat.

    Sea I agree with you on most everything we have ever discussed and I would be hard pressed to name someone whose opinion I put more stock in. But I think we are just seeing this from two different angles. I would concede that he may be guilty of ( pardon the bad pun) overkill. But I cannot find anything criminal in his actions.
     
  3. Mountainman

    Mountainman Großes Mitglied Site Supporter+++

    Maybe Obama (Zero) can get a bail out for him from the black community. Good F'in luck.

    I was trained to eliminate anyone that tries to kill me, so if that POS took a shot at me, F him. I'm so sick of the racial BS. Black, white, yellow, brown or green!!! I don't care who you are, if you try to kill me I will take the appropriate action.
     
  4. E.L.

    E.L. Moderator of Lead Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    The strongest thing in the pharmacist's defense was that you cannot see the perp in the video once he is down, so we do not know what his actions were after he went down.

    I think the DA in the video repeatedly calling the criminal "a child" was deplorable. He did it to incite emotions from the black community, and it worked. If a riot takes place, the DA should be charged with inciting it. I hope the good people of Oklahoma push him out of office. It is one thing to charge a person for a crime, but this DA did his best to incite the community before the case was even tried.
     
  5. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    And the releasing of the video was not warranted. I heard a theory today that may have some merit. I had breakfast this morning with a buddy who is a firearms instructor with local law enforcement agencies. He was telling me that the pharmacy shooting has been the main topic of conversation among the LEO's he has been working with. He said they all pretty much agree that the guy was justified and that no charges should have been filed.

    But the thing I hadn't thought of is the idea that he charged the guy with 1st degree murder knowing that he would never be convicted. So the DA is covering his butt knowing the video would come out. And by not charging a lesser charge like manslaughter he is virtually assuring that the pharmacist will walk. All the while he covers his butt and claims he was doing his job.

    I don't know if that theory has any merit or not but it could be. Especially with the news that the DA argued heatedly with the judge over her denying Mr. Ersland his right to protect himself. South OKC is rife with crime and racial tensions there are at an all time high. So by charging this guy with such an outrageous charge the DA is playing both sides of the line. But I seriously believe that it will be to no avail. There are calls on all local talk radio stations for his resignation. I doubt he will see a second term.

    And the main threat from all of this is that it has the potential to ignite simmering racial tensions no matter how the verdict goes.

    BTW, Mr. Ersland returned to work at the pharmacy accompanied by an armed guard. A black man.
     
  6. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Couldn't you read his lips he said "Don't go for that gun and stay down or I'll shoot you....."
    They should have had a REAL job. If you enter in a room with gun and threaten 2 women and a man with their lives you deserve worse then one in the head and 5 in the paunch........
     
  7. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    My point isn't that he didn't get what he deserved but rather, that stepping over that line threatens the only recently social acceptance of defending ourselves. It is gravy on the anti-gunners potatoes.
     
  8. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member



     
  9. jim2

    jim2 Monkey+++

    These thugs threatened someone with loss of life. Whenever that happens, the threatened are scared s--tless, and not really responsible for their actions. As far as I'm concerned, the defender (in this case, the pharmacist) should be legally allowed to complete what someone else started. If the robber is still moving any at all, he is still a lethal threat and should be shot until he stops moving. The pharmacist didn't start the controntation and didn't invite these animals into the store. TS on anyone starting something like this.

    Honest citizens shouldn't have to worry what the Just-us system will do to them when they are forced to defend themselves. Let the damned criminals do all the worrying. Anything else is plain nonsense!

    jim
     
  10. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    My thoughts too.
     
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