Weapon Buy Advice

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Avarice, Nov 22, 2011.


  1. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    I've got my AR but I also have two Keltec SU16's for the same purpose you are looking for rifles for. Wouldn't want to have any kind of extended fire fight with one of them because they heat up fast but for the purpose of survival I think they are just fine. Also nice that they can share my AR's stockpile of magazines. They aren't as cheap as an SKS but they can be had for between $400 - $500 and there is even a CA model.
     
    VisuTrac likes this.
  2. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    If you already have .223 I'd go with RR suggestion of KelTec or other carbine that takes the same ammo and magazines. Consolidation of Ammo offers some advantages.

    Plus you can probably rely on 'Blue Helmet' resupply if you run out of ammo shooting the zombies.

    YMMV.
     
  3. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    Here's an excellent no BS review from ETS: Kel-Tec SU-16 Review - EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm)
    The fact that they are user friendly was a the second biggest selling point for me after the compatibility with my AR's mags. Wanted to make sure it was something I could quickly train a complete novice to handle with a fair amount of competence.

    *Tried editing my above post and it wouldn't save.
     
  4. Gray Wolf

    Gray Wolf Monkey+++

    The thing about the Mosin's is the cheap price, and cheap ammo. You can probably get 5 of them and a goodly amount of ammo for about $1200.

    that amount would probably get you 2 lever action rifles and a goodly amount of ammo. It depends on how many people you need to arm.
     
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  5. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    A WASR is imported with single stack magazine well; after they are in country they are modified to accept double stack magazines. Best advice is when you buy an AK pay real close attention to sight alignment.

    AKs are dependable and easy to operate; plus recoil is light. AKs and ARs are both quick handlers. They are fun firearm for busting clays and popping cans. The AR is a lot more accurate, just as dependable but costs more. Either are in the "scare" people category.

    The 5,45 was the USSR's SCHV answer to the 5,56. There's a lot of 5,45 vs 7.62x39 debate; but either works good enough. For most people either is too powerful for home protection.
    A $15 five round magazine and its legal for deer.

    I live in bear country so I prefer a folder for hiking. With a 5 round it slides out of my pack easily.
     
  6. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    It all depends ( as stated prior) on what your "intended" use/s may be....
    I based my choices on
    1) hunting for food
    2) self defense
    I have 12 gauge shotguns that will supply food and defend in 'short ranges'...
    I have rifles in .22lr and .22 magnum for small game and such...
    I have M-N's for those long range knock downs for ANY critter, 2 or 4 legged....
    I have .357 revolvers for close up personal protection...
    I have bows ( compound and recurve) for hunting or....when quiet is a necessity...
    I even have .22 and .177 caliber high end pellet rifles, for small birds and game, that do NOT need the BLAST from a shotgun to dispatch...
    We have even packed away several slingshots...You just never know!
    It really all depends on what when and how, that makes the call for what types and calibers you may need...I chose on need and NOT on want.
    Or, I'd have a Marlin .444, and their .45-70!
    I did recently get a couple of .50's in black powder ( inlines) They are for many things. ( just in case) IF and WHEN they might be needed.
    We have some rather large Elk in the area, and I am not one much for tracking a wounded one through the area! A .50 cal is a serious bullet and can easily bring down a bigger game animal than I have ever hunted!
    ( honestly, the biggest game I have ever hunted was rabbits!) Squirrels, quail and dove just don't count!
    LOL!
    We did just acquire 2 SKS rifles...one with a scope and no front sight, it was stripped, but we replaced all the hardware...including the stock and handguard. The other is a beauty, both are yugo's. My youngest son (23 soon) shot my oldest sons SKS at the range and although he flinched the first few times, he liked it after 20 rounds! So, we got a couple! Ammo will be easy to come by and relatively cheap....
     
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  7. Look at it this way (based on prices here):

    The SKS. To buy 5 of them would run $1,250. Ammo is approx $200 per case. 100 stripper clips is $36. So, $1,700 will set you up with 5 rifles, 2 cases of ammo and stripper clips. As far as reliability, it's hard to beat either a SKS or AK. Sure they are crude, don't have the greatest sights but mine go bang every time and hit where I aim. Even under the last AWB, SKS rifles in original configuration were exempted in CA. Still are. Just had to be registered.

    The AR. For the same $1,700 you could buy two rifles (parts kits+lowers-$650x2=$1,300) 1 case of ammo(good 5.56mm stuff) and 10 mags. You'll get a more refined rifle with a better trigger, maybe less recoil and better sights. Reliability is good. Still have to bring them in compliance with the CA AWB.

    The Mosin. $1,700 will get you 12 rifles, 1 case of ammo and 100 stripper clips. Most have crappy triggers, lots of recoil but a good sight radius. Excellent reliability.

    I've owned, shot or worked on just about every weapons platform out there. My personal choice for my survival armory is SKS and AK semi autos. Know how to take it apart and fix it. The bigger part of the overall picture is whatever rifle you choose, shoot it alot. There is no substitue for trigger time. Professional training is even better.
     
  8. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King |RIP 11-4-2017

    If you are going with an AK platform, IMO, the best way to assure a good gun at a good price is go with a Saiga and convert it back with a stock, trigger group and pistol grip.

    You'll end up paying overall maybe $50 more than a cheap "crapshoot" AK and you get one made by Izhmash.

    Not the lightest weapon in the world, but maybe the toughest.
     
    Alpha Dog likes this.
  9. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    The only trouble with that is if you are in antigun states the goverment would try and hang you for changing or modifing the weapon. Which Im glad Im not in one of those states but I had read one time wher CA. charged a guy for putting a after market stock on an sks.
     
  10. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    You can be arrested anymore, just for putting a Pringles can on the end of a paint ball gun! Sheesh! Talk about whack jobs!
     
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    That fact of 5 opens things up a bit. Some of the 5 could be equipped differently, say for suppressive fire while another or two take on specific threats. Five of one type/style means the need for parts redundancy and shooter familiarity is reduced/simplified, but also tactical flexibility suffers.

    It's time to get a bit more specific with the expected scenarios. Range to engagement? Urban/suburban/rural? Kids as part of the squad? (If so, M-N is NOT the choice, 5.56 or 5.45 IS for both suppressive and accurate fire, and planning for an uparming later to .308 or similar is needed.)

    Set aside some money and ammo for range time, you are going to need it, and lots with 5 shooters and no intent to hunt or compete, just zap "zombies" under potential and anticipated (but not certain) scenarios. Welcome to prepping in depth.
     
    Sapper John, Falcon15 and dragonfly like this.
  12. fedorthedog

    fedorthedog Monkey+++

    Ok you do not state the ages or size of the family members. If this involves kids or adolescents I would think about 10-22's if the common caliber thing is that important. If not think about different calibers with similar actions M1, M1 carbine, Mini 14 or pump shotguns in 12 and 20 gauge, youth models for the small people. As you are in Calif I assume you are in a city and most issues would be close contact.
     
  13. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    I live 10 miles outside the greater LA, basically a large hill separates me from LA. I'm at the foothills of National Forest towards the desert. I also live WAY back in town away from the freeway. My personal opinion is that people won't be traveling towards the desert anyways. I live behind my store, which is a small organic grocer, so I can expect to be looted.

    The city has a population of 70,000, with a large percentage of retired.

    I have three women, 2 young children, 1 handicapped girl, and another adult male. Granny, my wife, and her brother have limited experience target shooting from YEARS ago, so retraining and practice will be a must.
     
  14. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    I don't see the need for 5 rifles to equip your group. I mean the more the merrier and in the end it's your call but for what you've described I say 2 or 3 rifles and a 12 gauge shotgun. If the idea is to bug-in (and I assume if possible that is the goal) that should provide you with more than adequate firepower for defending you and yours. I don't think you could go wrong with any of the rifles previously mentioned but I would also add something along the lines of a Maverick 88 12 gauge which has a a pretty good track record and is highly affordable. Should be able to snag one brand new about anywhere for around $175-190 before taxes and whatever other fees.
     
  15. limpingbear

    limpingbear future cancer survivor....


    Ive been out of komifornia for a few years but when i was there they had put a ban on detachable magazines for "assault rifles" they had to either be fixed mag or "tool removable" to be legal. your best bet is the SKS if you can find them...
     
  16. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    That's really a non-issue with AR pattern rifles as the 'tool' can be as simple as the tip of a bullet when a bullet mag release button is used. Also thinking that so long as weapon doesn't have whatever the magic number of assault weapon features a 10 round detachable mag with normal mag release is still legal. I could be wrong though.
     
  17. Wolfgang2000

    Wolfgang2000 Monkey++

    First every weapon platform has strength and weakness. There is also personal bias. example, I dislike the 5.56/223 round. Yes I know it works, but I've seen is fail to many times. I know people that aphor "black rifles". And so on.

    Of course you have to take your local laws, the average shooting range you will be facing, if this is just a SD or hunting or both. What type/size of game you will be going after. You should also consider if there are critters that will make you and yours part of the food chain.

    You also need to consider the cost, and the availability of the ammo.

    People can suggest any wiz bang rifle in the mow-em flat caliber, but if you can't afford it what good is it?

    One last thing to consider. Ammo commonality. IMO logistics are easier if weapons use the same round. Some people disagree, you have to make yourself happy on this one.

    If this was 10 or 15 years ago I would tell you to jump on the SKS band wagon. The problem is except for some Yugo's there are no new ones being imported. So you will have to inspect each one.

    I agree with others that in California I wouldn't want anything that raise the government eye brow.

    The Mosin Nagant is a inexpensive rifle that has killed millions of fascist. It does have recoil. Also to the best of my knowledge there is no US production of that ammo. Also ALL the surplus 7.62x54R is corrosive. Not a big deal but you have to be aware of that.

    Others have suggested the 30-30. It's a good round with a decent range. I can't even guess how many deer are taken with that round every year. The lever action design is a proven design but it, like other, has it's quirks.

    You might consider say, 3 large caliber rifles and a couple 22's for the smaller people in your group. Also the 22's can be used for some training and small game.

    Just food for thought.
     
  18. Gray Wolf

    Gray Wolf Monkey+++

    Avarice, you might be better served with 2 Mosin's, 2 10-22's for the younger/recoil sensitive folks, and a 12 Ga. pump. That gives you some long range punch, some low-recoil rapid fires (with large mags), and up close punch. I still think you can do all that with adequate ammo for $1200.
     
  19. NVBeav

    NVBeav Monkey+++

    Black Friday sale on SKS rifles:
    Yugoslavian SKS 59/66, 7.62x39. Good to very good condition.

    To me, the recoil is almost negligible and could be handled by smaller people in a stationary situation (they're a little heavy). Also, the trigger needs work. [This pertains only to the Yugo variety - I've never seen the Russia/East Block or Chinese versions.]

    I still have mine even though I never take it out anymore. My small collection is shrinking as I find what suits my purposes (e.g. sold a couple pistols and am selling a couple rifles). It's just a sturdy, consistent shooter that I've had trigger work done on; other than that, I'm not really sure why I like it so much.
     
    dragonfly likes this.
  20. Wolfgang2000

    Wolfgang2000 Monkey++

    I like the SKS. I've never shot a Yugo, but I own several Chi-Com paratroopers. (They have a 16" barrel as compared to the normal 20".) If you can find a couple GOOD SKS's They are, IMO, one of the best "survival" rifle out there. I've never seen a SKS that would benefit from a trigger job. That said they are more than serviceable just the way they are.

    But if you have to register them I would think twice. I've never seen a registration that didn't end in confiscation.

    I admit that my knowledge on CA. gun laws is lacking, but I get the impression that military style weapons are frowned upon. If it was me and I wanted to stay under the government radar, I would just stay away from them, except for the bolt action rifles.

    Being a lefty I've stayed away from bolt guns. However I sure wish I had bought a few of those M44's when they were $75.00 each.
     
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