Weapon Buy Advice

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Avarice, Nov 22, 2011.


  1. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    One thing that can be done is to "modify" the buttstock of a weapon that seems to be punishing your shoulder. As for the Moison-Nagants, there are a few places that selle xcellent repalcement buttstock pads that really "tame" that beast down. Now IF you choose to buy one, make sure to get the "hand selected" one over the one in the back room....You can buy non-corrosive ammo from Sellier&Bellot (sp?) as they have "reloadable" boxer primed brass cases, with copper jacketed rounds and even have a nice soft tip hunting round in 204/208 grains (?) We got our M-N's from J&G sales, and had to return one with NO hassles at all...We bought the hex receiver styles in the 1931 category, and they are LONG rifles, as all get out, but they hit just about as far away as one can see! The .30-.30 has brought down MORE game in North America than any other rifle ever made...I had a Winchester and sold if after shooitng 3 rounds thru it...I hated being hit in the face with the expended brass cartridges.! I found out that it's because of the top ejection as opposed to a Marlin, which side ejects! It's all a matter of taste in the end. You use what you feel comfortable with and whichever one works for you...!
     
  2. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Most of it is either personal bias or preference. The first stamped AKs had serious problems which is why "they" switched to milled. I missed the initial issue of the M16 in Vietnam; so I didn't see what others did.
     
  3. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    I've decided upon Saiga 7.62x39. I'll buy them at $299.00+tax and have them, and will be able to convert them to something fancier as money comes in, and the ammo is cheap.

    Any opinions that would change my mind?
     
    Alpha Dog likes this.
  4. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    They are a good shooting AK plus there is alot of after market products for them. A friend of mine has one of the Saiga 12ga and its fun to shoot don't seem to have the recoil other 12ga have. You can also get them in 5.56 but I would stay wit 7.62x39 because mil surp AK mag will fit and if the gun has been made for single stac mags with a little filing can be fix to take the mags.
     
  5. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    Avarice
    Saigas have a good reputation. Personally, I try to stick with factory AKs rather than parts guns.

    Right now 5,45 is less expensive but who knows what tomorrow will bring?

    Alpha Dog,
    AK-74 mag, a follower and a touch with a Dremel. I honestly prefer them to Bulgarian waffles.
     
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Here is the one the neighbor, had with him last night, when he came for Thanksgiving......
    GuideGun.
     
    Sapper John, Gator 45/70 and Falcon15 like this.
  7. Redneck Rebel

    Redneck Rebel Monkey++

    Not to threadjack, but that is one sexy piece of hardware.
     
  8. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    My gun guy told me not to buy the guns in one bunch because of the ATF coming to my door wondering why I'm buying 4 or 5 guns. Any information on this? Is it as easy as, "Yes I want to buy 4 guns, they are for me and my family to go hunting and shooting etc." Or do I get grilled and it will be less hassle to buy them two weeks apart? Anyone heard anything?

    That is a sexy piece of hardware. Looks like it's seen some years and is still shooting.
     
  9. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I don't know that the bat clowns will call on you, but I'd still recommend spacing out the buy. For one thing, if you find you don't like the platform, or one of your squad can't or won't handle it, shedding one is easier than shedding 5.
     
  10. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    A little bit of history for ya all... Back in the mid 1950's some Stupid General decided the Army needed a round less powerful than the .308 for those folks, like himself, who were recoil sensitive...

    you can read the History for yourselves here
    5.56×45mm NATO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    the important part is this section...
    (*AK-47 magazines are much heavier than M14 and M16 magazines)

    One Marine General lamented the adoption of the M16 marked the death of the riflemen and gave rise to the new school of Spray and Pray...

    Here's my thoughts... the AK does have better Kinetic energy on target but recoil makes it hard to come back on target quickly... more so for those who are not accomplished marksmen... the AR15/M16/M4 variants have no more recoil that does a standard .22 lr. making them ideal for those, recoil sensitive or unpracticed...

    Lastly let me point out the 5.56 is standard NATO issue... the 7.62X39 is not...
    in a protracted SHTF AK owners would be facing critical shortages of ammo while the rest of us with 5.56 and .308's have lots of places to scrounge from...

    My personal opinion... is forget the AK/SKS type weapons... stick to what's NATO and LEO issued... Otherwise you might find yourself with an empty chamber right in the middle of an on going gunfight...
     
    Alpha Dog likes this.
  11. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn RIP 1/13/21

    Why chance a visit. Buy 2 yourself. Have another adult in your tribe buy 2 more, and another adult the last purchase.
     
  12. GrandpaDave

    GrandpaDave Monkey++

    Your Gun Guy... is right... under law if someone purchase two or more weapons at a time... they will be investigated by the ATF... I don't even have to call... if I file the paperwork some computer will flag your name...
    Honestly I've had ATF field agents in my house. the ones I've dealt with are just regular guys... but we all hear stories about run ins with the bad ones
     
  13. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    OK, the FIRST thing you should do is go to your local library and get Mel Tappan's SURVIVAL GUNS and TAPPAN ON SURVIVAL (deltapress.com), get Boston T. Party's BOSTON's GUN BIBLE (javelinpress.com), any/all of Massad Ayoob's books, Kurt Saxon's POOR MAN'S JAMES BOND series and SURVIVOR series (also available on disk), and all gun, hunting, survival, homesteading, self-reliance books they have and READ THEM! If they don't have the listed books, get them through the inter-library loan system.

    Next go to northwoodstraders.ecrater.com and buy a copy of THE INDEPENDENT AMERICAN ONLINE MAG on disk ($10 last time I looked - which is a screaming deal! I just do a search of INDEPENDENT AMERICAN in the search funtion rather than look through the site, which does have some good items you probably will need anyway).

    Go to Barnes and Noble and get SURVIVALIST MAG (survivalist.com) which is SUPPOST to be at B&N, but I have never saw it there. The first three issues were pretty lame, the fourth was very good, and if you go to the site and listen to the radio programs, the guy from Idaho who puts out the CD listed above is GREAT! Supposted to be a writer for them now. That should help the mag a GREAT deal! SUPPOSEDLY they are to put out a mag in November, 2011 (haven't seen it yet) and another in December, 2011 to get them back on the every-other month publishing.

    Next buy/get subs to BACKWOODSMAN MAG, BACKWOODS HOME, COUNTRYSIDE AND SMALL STOCK JOURNAL. Mother Earth News is read at the library, too communist for me.

    NOW you buy your guns. If you like the Ruger P-series, great. They feel like a brick to me, but someone must like it. Same with Glocks, some people love them, others hate them because they feel like a brick. What I like or anyone else likes doesn't matter, what do YOU like and shoot well?

    OK, you need a total of SIX guns to do it all.

    A battle rifle (budget guns only now): Mosin-Nagant rifle, Short Mag Lee Enfield, Mauser.

    A carbine: SKS, AK, AR.

    Shotgun: Rem 870, Ithaca 37, Browning BPS.

    Centerfire pistol: any .38 Special and UP - .357 Mag (can use .38 spec), 9mm Luger/.38 Super (often you can get a second barrel in the other cartridge for two cartridge use), .40 S&W, .44 Spec/.44 mag, .45 ACP, .45 Colt. WHAT DO YOU LIKE AND SHOOT WELL? THAT is what YOU should get!

    .22 rifle: too many good ones to list.

    .22 handgun: trainer for your CF handgun, just get the .22 that matches it.

    Ammo; All you can get and then MORE! There is no such thing as "too much ammo"!! Guns will last for hundreds of years if cared for, ammo is used once (or reloaded a few times) and is GONE! The ONLY reasonable reply to "How much ammo do you have?" is "NOT ENOUGH!", "How much do you need?" "MORE!"

    Stick with common/popular cartridges. The .273 Superboomer might be exactly what you need, but if ammo is only made every fifth leap year and sold by the single cartridge to collectors, it might not be ideal for survival use. .223, .308/7.62x51 NATO, .30-06 are common military rounds found most places. Most places will aslo have 7.62x39, .270 Win, .30-30 Win, 9mm Luger, .38 Spec/.357 mag, .44 Mag, .45 ACP. 7.62x39 (SKS/AK) and 7.62x54R (M-N) are very common on the surplus market CURRENTLY, but that means nothing 6 months from now! Buy all you can NOW! Tomorrow might be to late, literally!! The .38 Super is UNcommon, 8mm Mauser and .303 British USED to be dead common on the surlpus market but have dried up and I NEVER see it any more.

    One last thing I have not seen mentioned here, why not vote with your feet and MOVE?!? Get out of Kommiefornia!!

    Hope this helps.
     
  14. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    OK, should have covered this in the above post. If you buy TWO or more HANDGUNS at one time (in a seven day period) the dealer HAS to report it to the BATFE. You can go in and buy 20 rifles and shotguns all at once and there are NO Federal laws that the dealer has to report it! PERIOD! IF you buy a few rifles and/or shotguns all at once and someone shows up on your doorstep, then that dealer is a fed plant and should be "talked to" rather seriously in a dark alley with a lead pipe. It is easy to go to the BATFE web site and look all this up for yourself rather than listening to ANYONE (including me) on the net about what the law reads. LOCAL laws may vary, but there are no FEDERAL laws that rifle/shotgun sales have to be reported.

    Ammo scrounging is NOT going to work well. Sure .223/5.56x45 is NATO standard and .308/7.62x51 NATO is also standard, that does NOT mean it will be every where and/or readly available. Look at ANY battlefield, the favorite sport is checking all the bodies for more ammo. There is no such thing as "too much" ammo! If you don't have it stocked up NOW, don't expect to find it later, at ANY price! I fully expect to see .22 LR (rimfire) ammo to be used as money. In some parts of the world ammo is already used as money and have been for 60 years or more, since WW II at least. Once the local stockpiles are used up/looted, where do you think all this new ammo is coming from? Soldiers will carry a battle pack and no more, and they will be busy shooting that up too. The factories are probably not going to be cranking it out, possibly for the foreseeable future, such as your, and your children's, life times. You can reload, cast bullets and stock primers/powder/cases deep and high, but sooner or later the CASES will wear out and then they are GONE! Don't expect to turn them out on a lathe, except for a few straight cased cartridges, one shot and it is GONE! Split, ruptured, in two pieces, etc. Expect to take up to an hour to make some nice bottlenecked cases, and then shoot them once and throw it away. So expect to stock up for your life time and your children's life time, and then buy MORE!
     
  15. Avarice

    Avarice California Health Junkie

    I'd suggest starting out with several thousand rounds if you've got the money. It's about the same amount of money to buy a new round as it is to reload, or so my reloading friends tell me.
     
  16. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Legion489, that WAS True for all FFL Licensees, UNTILL the latest ATFE Bulletin for States on the Mexican Boarder, which is EXACTLY where Avarice is. (SoCal) Also he has to consider that he IS in Kommiefornia, and MANY of the weapons that you mention are NOT available for Sale in that State. He MUST be very careful about which FireArms he acquires, and possess, so that he complies with State Statutes. .......
     
  17. Wolfgang2000

    Wolfgang2000 Monkey++

    Actually different platform have different issues.

    Example: lever action tube fed rifles have issues with getting the tube dented, and are slow to reload. The M16/AR15 gas impingement system will cook the oil out if you shoot it fast enough and long enough. The AK's "loose" action, which gives it the legendary reliability, also lowers its accuracy, and its non-drop free mag change slows the reload time.

    Every platform has it's + & -. You train through them.

    If I woke up tomorrow and all my 7.62x39 stuff had been changed to 5.56 I would just train to to it's advantages. Heck from the army through my LEO careerer I had to use one. I can make it run, I just don't like the round it's running with. It's a personal thing.
     
  18. Alpha Dog

    Alpha Dog survival of the breed

    I agree I would try everything possible to try and stay under the radar because once they flag you, your name is forever in that data base. They have some of the dumbest laws to trip up gun owner like if you own a gun with a fixed mag and you have a mag laying around that could be used to make the fixed mag detatchable and don't own another legal firearm that the mag will fit they can charge you with it even with your gun not modified. A friend of mine got in trouble a few years ago he bought a ruger 10/22 then a book on how to convert it to auto a few months later the a book on how make a silencer. Standing around a little mom and pop restraunt talking with some friends about how easy it looks to be by reading. Some anti-gun owner called and reported him and the men in black showed up. he was charged with attempting to make the ruger an auto because he had the book and tools in his building to do it. they tried to charge him with attempting to make a silencer but he was two or three parts shy. He didn't even know he had some parts to make the silencer and his 10/22 had never been touched other than to shoot and clean.
     
  19. Legion489

    Legion489 Rev. 2:19 Banned

    BT, the only two guns listed that are non-Kommiefornia legal are the AK and AR, and they CAN be had Kommiefornia legal. The "Fast and Furious" ATF idea to supply illegal guns to Mexico is also LOCAL, not US wide. They were not concerned with WW II bolt guns, they wanted AKs, ARs, etc to go to Mexico so they could claim that illegal US guns were flooding Mexico and arming the drug cartels. Typical demonrat/Oboona operation. Yes, ''demonrat" IS the proper spelling.

    He still needs to move! Survive in So. Cal.? HA! I spent some time in LA and the high desert (which I liked better) but illegals, gangs, drugs were all over both areas. Better to get out now, while the getting is good (or at least possible) rather than die like the jews did in Germany because "they couldn't leave". And yes, the camps are coming here too. Just a matter of time if we don't get our heads out of our asses.

    MORE ammo, less guns! If forced to choose between "enough" ammo and more guns, ammo wins hands down! You buy ONE gun and spend that amount buying ammo (min. of 1000 rds, 5,000 is better), that amount buying mags (if needed), spare parts, holster/sling/scope/whatever, THEN buy the second gun and repeat. Like I keep saying, guns last forever, ammo is used ONCE and gone! When I was in Europe, I saw 600 year old guns, I didn't see any 600 year old ammo! At the museum I can look at Civil War weapons (including many breechloaders and cartridge guns), what I don't see is CW ammo! After any combat, guns are laying all over, AMMO is hard to find!

    Lever actions are pretty much legal where any gun is legal. Yes, the mag tube can get dented, but mags can get lost/damaged and will wear out in about a year if run hard (like you SHOULD be practicing!) and some guns won't even work if the mag is missing (Browning Hi-Power for one). MUCH easier to top off a lever gun tube with a few rounds than it is to pull a AR mag and top it off too. No, the lever gun doesn't hold as much ammo, but in 99% of gun fights (not combat), the fighting is over in three rounds. Sure the average cop will shoot 67 rounds at an unarmed victim (NYC) trapped in a door way, and hit them seven times, at nine feet (famious shooting, go look it up), but the average, or even rank beginning, IPSC shooter is so far advanced beyond the average cop (and I know a LOT of both all over the country) that it isn't even funny.

    Avarice, I don't know about your friends, but I reload and spend about the same amount of money as I did when I bought only factory, the difference is I shoot about four/five times more now. I can buy .45 ACP factory for 40 cents a round (locally, after sales tax), I can reload that case for about 12 cents if I buy the bullet, for about 8 cents if I cast my own bullets. The case lasts pretty much forever, or I lose it, whichever comes first, so yeah, I save some money. .223 and .308 work out the same, buck to buy .308, quarter to reload. YMMV.
     
  20. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    7.62x39, 5.45, or 5,56 as they all work I'm not partial to any. What I dislike about all the intermediates is give or take 75 meters or so; the effective range is the same for friend and foe. Which means their reach and your reach is about the same reach. ;)

    I have 5.56 caliber AK clone and it is a rip with a 3x9. :D
     
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