Welcome to Fascist America

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by melbo, Oct 5, 2006.


  1. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Welcome to Fascist America!

    My fellow Americans, it’s official now: We live in a fascist nation.​
    Now, the term "fascist" has been thrown around over the last fifty years in a loose way that has drained it of much of its meaning. If someone wanted to cut 5% off of a leftist professor's favourite welfare programme, the professor would call his opponent a "fascist." I’m not using the word like that. I mean honest-to-goodness, old-fashioned, 1930s style fascism, featuring such old favourites as:


    Secret prisons – they’re back!
    Torture – we’re doing it.
    Spying on all citizens.
    Arrests and indefinite imprisonment without trial.
    Rampant militarism.
    Secret detention.
    Enforced disappearance.
    Denial and restriction of habeas corpus.
    Prolonged incommunicado detention.
    Unfair trial procedures.



    (This list was compiled partially based on the work of Amnesty International, available here.)


    An absolutely mind-numbing response to complaints that our traditional legal system is being torn apart is the question, "So, you want to protect the rights of terrorists?"


    Um, no, I want to protect the rights of non-terrorists who might be falsely accused of terrorism! That was sort of, you know, the whole idea of our legal system. I’m sure there was some neo-con around in the 1700s saying to Jefferson or Madison, "So, you want to protect the rights of murderers and robbers?" but luckily they ignored him.


    We’ve now gotten to the point where Nazi Germany was, say, in 1934. Remember, at that time, if you had told a typical German what his government would do over the next ten years, he would have looked at you as a madman. After all, his land had been civilized for over a thousand years. His was the nation of Albertus Magnus, Gutenberg, Goethe, Schiller, Beethoven, Bach, Kant, Hegel, Schelling, Fichte, Heisenberg, Reimann, Mann, Lessing, Herder, Handel, Dürer, Leibniz, Gauss, Helmholtz – he could have gone on, but you get the point. His nation could not possibly descend into barbarism! If you tried to tell him he was living in a police state, he would have pointed out that his government had used its vast new powers very judiciously, and only against a few trouble-makers. So far.


    It is interesting, in gauging the direction we are heading, to look at the proclamations of "respectable" opinion writers who support this administration. For instance, we have people at a "libertarian" think tank proclaiming that Moslems are not entitled to full civil rights in the US. (Perhaps we need to make them wear something special on their clothing like, say, a yellow star, so we know just who they are, hey?) But "conservatives" provide even more stunning examples of purely fascist reasoning. For example, conservative demagogue Ann Coulter has called for the editor of The NY Times to face the firing squad for his part in publicizing this administration's abuses of power. Let’s look at a recent column by Douglas MacKinnon at TownHall.com.


    MacKinnon considers all of those involved in revealing the sordid collection of secret programmes that have been launched by the Bush administration as "traitors" who have publicized these schemes "purely because they don’t like the policies of the new president." Well, he’s right in that "they don’t like the policies" that they consider unconstitutional violations of our rights. Far from "aiding the enemy," these revelations aided us, the American people, by letting us know what our government has in store for us.


    Consider what the point of classifying these programmes was in the first place, and who they were being kept secret from. The jihadists no doubt already knew about the secret prisons – their friends are in them! They surely knew that the war in Iraq has been helping their recruiting – it’s their recruiting! ("Praise be to Allah, Abdul, I read in The NY Times that it is the Iraq War that is sending us these thousands of new recruits – who knew?") They no doubt suspect they may be wiretapped – what they didn’t know was that all the rest of us are, as well. No, not one of these leaks helps terrorists, nor was one of them classified to stop terrorists from finding them out. We were the ones who weren’t supposed to find out about them.
    MacKinnon continues: "And if even one American lost his or her life because of a leak, then I would want that person to be executed for treason."
    So anyone who reveals our fascist government policies is a traitor who can be executed! This is obviously an attempt to intimidate the opposition so that our police state can be expanded without the annoying work stoppages caused by public outcry when the latest bit of construction is revealed. And just how does MacKinnon propose to show that some American lost his life because a journalist revealed that the US government tortures people across the globe, rather than, say, because the policies he supports have inspired a million new jihadists? Secret trial, perhaps? Or why even bother with trials for filthy traitors?


    Herr Goebbels – oops, I mean MacKinnon – writes, "Until we severely punish those who leak classified information, then the traitors among us will not only continue to flourish, but will grow more brazen with the secrets they reveal."


    Yes, what we ought to be able to do, you know, is simply seize anyone who even mentions our government’s "secret" prisons, and, without a trial, throw them in a secret prison! This is the logical conclusion of this fascist’s article, after all, since those who talk about the American Gulag are pretty much terrorists themselves.


    Folks, this is coming real soon, and, once it does, domestic opposition is pretty much over. One journalist – that will be about all it takes – will be seized as a "terrorist" and thrown in the Gulag. The government may release him, but then another will simply disappear in the night in Iraq or Afghanistan, and rumors will circulate that he is being kept in a cage somewhere and waterboarded. No journalist lacking heroic courage will any longer be willing to seriously protest government policy.


    America is full of decent people, who could never believe their own government could become fascist. So were Germany and Italy in the 1920s. But they became fascist anyway. They passed laws suspending civil liberties, but the government promised the frightened populace that those laws would only be used against targets like "Communist terrorists." And, a little bit at a time, the target kept getting bigger and bigger, slowly enough that the people who weren’t paying close attention never detected it.
    And, next thing you know, there were millions of people dead! So, it turns out, it would have been worth paying attention after all.
     
  2. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    This cannot have a happy ending. Friends that I have great respect for still jump up and defend this trend as necessary. They cannot believe that this unmitigated power will ever be mis-used against us, that or they are waiting to become part of the enforcers. I can hardly breath in dread of the next tide of restrictions; no, that is too mild a word, the next tsunami. For example, eleven states have passed legislation allowing the medicinal use of marijuana and the federal government won't allow it, even to the point of arresting them in state approved facilities; what happened to individual rights, the rights of a State to determine it's own local laws? Sure, we're all against drug use, it's bad for the kids, et al, but the big picture is still the federal government over-riding the rights of a state to legislate itself...in direct violation of the Constitution.
     
  3. yonder

    yonder No Despot's Servant

    You are dead on right with this.

    Have you seen America: Freedom to Fascism yet? If it's not being shown near you, you can download the bittorrent. It's a must-see. It goes through the whole dirty process we've been going through over the last ~100 years and places the Federal Reserve squarely at the center of this movement.

    "Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity, quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace." - Benito Mussolini

    "The truth is that men are tired of liberty." - Benito Mussolini

    Even while both of my grandfathers went off thinking they were fighting the fascists, the fascists in our own homeland were quietly at work nibbling away at the Constitution and replacing it with something far more insidious.

    “Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power” - Benito Mussolini

    "The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist." - Winston Churchill

    "
    During a war, news should be given out for instruction rather than information." - Joseph Goebbels

    "The war made possible for us the solution of a whole series of problems that could never have been solved in normal times." - Goebbels

    "
    Not every item of news should be published. Rather must those who control news policies endeavor to make every item of news serve a certain purpose." Goebbels

    "
    It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion." - Goebbels

    "
    Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering

    "
    The efficiency of the truly national leader consists primarily in preventing the division of the attention of a people, and always in concentrating it on a single enemy." - Adolph Hitler

    "
    Why nationalize industry when you can nationalize the people?" - Adolph Hitler


     
  4. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

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    [FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]Report: Thousands Wrongly on Terror List[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#cbcbcd><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD height=2></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>[​IMG] [FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]Email this Story[/FONT]

    Oct 6, 10:59 PM (ET)

    By LESLIE MILLER
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width=210 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle><TABLE borderColor=#cbcbcd cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width=150 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR align=middle><TD>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif](AP) A National Guard troop walks through a terminal at Logan International Airport in Boston in this...
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    www.foreignpolicy.com

    University of California - Int'l Relations Masters Degree International Economics track
    irps.ucsd.edu

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    WASHINGTON (AP) - Thousands of people have been mistakenly linked to names on terror watch lists when they crossed the border, boarded commercial airliners or were stopped for traffic violations, a government report said Friday.
    More than 30,000 airline passengers have asked just one agency - the Transportation Security Administration - to have their names cleared from the lists, according to the Government Accountability Office report.
    Hundreds of millions of people each year are screened against the lists by Customs and Border Protection, the State Department and state and local law enforcement agencies. The lists include names of people suspected of terrorism or of possibly having links to terrorist activity.
    "Misidentifications can lead to delays, intensive questioning and searches, missed flights or denied entry at the border," the report said. "Whether appropriate relief is being afforded these individuals is still an open question."
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width=210 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle><TABLE borderColor=#cbcbcd cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width=150 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR align=middle><TD>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif](AP) A National Guard troop walks through a terminal at Logan International Airport in Boston in this...
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    [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>When questions arose about tens of thousands of names between December 2003 and January 2006, the names were sent back to the agencies that put them on the lists, the GAO said. Half of those were found to be misidentified, the report found.
    In December 2003, disparate agencies with counterterrorism responsibilities consolidated dozens of watch lists of known or suspected terrorists into the new Terrorist Screening Center run by the FBI.
    People are considered "misidentified" if they are matched to the database and then, upon further examination, are found not to match. They are usually misidentified because they have the same name as someone in the database.
    People are considered "mistakenly listed" if they were put on the list in error or if they should no longer be included on the list because of subsequent events, the report said.
    Problems developed with terrorist watch lists after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
    Maher Arar, a Canadian software engineer, was detained at New York's Kennedy Airport in 2002 because Canadian officials had asked that he be placed on a watch list. The U.S. transferred him without court approval to Syria where he was tortured and imprisoned for a year. A Canadian inquiry found that Arar should not have been on the list because he didn't do anything wrong.
    The no-fly list given to airlines to make sure terrorists don't board airplanes grew exponentially after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The no-fly list is part of the Terrorist Screening Center database.
    Young children and well-known Americans like Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., were stopped at airports because their names were the same as those on the no-fly list.
    The list has contained the names of Bolivia's President Evo Morales and Nabih Berri, Lebanon's parliamentary speaker, according to a report by CBS'"60 Minutes," to be broadcast Sunday.
    Richard Kopel, acting director of the screening center, said in a statement that Morales and Berri are not on the current no-fly list. He did not address whether they were in the past, noting only that the list changes daily.
    Two international flights - in December 2004 and May 2005 - were diverted because passenger were misidentified as on the no-fly list.
    Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press that watch lists aren't perfect.
    "The watch list was the first stage of building a security net for the aviation system," Chertoff said.
    He said an agreement reached Friday between the U.S. and the European Union would help prevent people from being misidentified.
    The agreement calls for airlines to submit 34 pieces of data - including names, addresses and credit card details - about passengers flying from Europe to the United States.
    The report said agencies are working to minimize the effect on people who are frequently misidentified.
    TSA puts people on a special list of names that have been checked and cleared after they've complained to a call center and provided the agency more identification.
    Customs annotates its database with a note that certain people shouldn't be stopped. As of September 2006, Customs annotated more than 10,300 names. Customs also gives preapproved low-risk travelers ID cards that provide expedited processing.
    Customs acknowledged to the GAO that it needs to do a better job of providing guidance for their redress procedures for people who believe they've been misidentified. The Justice Department is leading an effort to make sure that all agencies formally document opportunities for redress and that agency responsibilities are clear, the report said. ---
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  5. NY PRO

    NY PRO Monkey+++

    But gentlemen.....evryday we're told about how free we are and how lucky we are to be in this country and how those bad terrorists want our freedoms and way of life! What you've said can't possibly be so. It can "Never" happen here! Our gov't wouldn't let it happen! It protects us from such bad things........see....no terrorists are invading us.....! So the gov't must be right! The news media must be right! The school system and colleges all must be right!
     
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