What do you think your chances are of heading to the hills ?

Unfortunately, I think that is all too true. However,, we are dug in fairly well, have friends and some neighbors who are also dug in for a long battle or seige if nec. The "take what we want crowd" really won't last long if they come up here. Also, we are at about 6,000' and our winters are also very cold and white. Those people will NOT last long , even if they were to take our place's as they do NOT know how to survive anyway, no matter what they manage to steal. Knowledge is really key to survival especially in the mountains in the high country. I suspect our coyotes and wolves will be very fat and happy by the time the first winter is over

 

The sad part is that these same people once getting up there, with no plans or supplies, will soon be the raiders we all keep seeing posted on these boards. But, then again , they for the most part will not last too long. It gets dark out here at night, and the 'bad' things creep and crawl in the night..

 

It may be so..........

But around here land owners shoot at way ward hunters let alone "outlanders" who come to rob and steal.


If anyone thinks they can just drive up into the mountains and squat somewhere BOY ARE THEY IN FOR A SURPRISE!! I know Catron County NM and Apache County AZ, most places you'll find yourself shot NOW going to the wrong places let alone when TSHTF.


Get Food
Get Water

peace
Dan

 

Funny you should mention Apache County Az. as I just happen to have lived here now for about 15 years, and you are very right about the conditions. We all pretty much have back hoe's avail. should we need to dig a new "burn pit" so to say

 

Well Dan, I suspect that you will find their many bones deep in ravines when the spring thaw comes.

 

God Forbid

It is my sincere hope that I never have to make those kind of decisions.

Or................... that the coyotes get to their remains before I have to see them.


Dan

 

Dragonfly, there was a guy a couple of weeks ago on another site that was asking for advise on the best place to "stab" a bear. He had watched it on some movie and felt he could do the same in order to survive. Intending to go stalk a black bear, jump on it, wrestle it to the ground and ending the fight by stabbing the bear to death. Anyone you have met ? The discission ended when I asked him if he would leave me all his stuff as he wouldn't be needing it anymore.... LOL

 

Bug-in vs. Bug-out

Nice conversation on the choice between bugging in and bugging out.

My choice is a bug-in situation. The food storage steadily grows, alternative means of cooking have been addressed. My current achille's heel is my water. My recent purchase of a waterbob is not much of a long-term solution but it does do something that addresses the water challenge.

While this discussion has been off topic, I hope it can continue--very useful.

 

The biggest problem with bugging in is: 1) SECURITY
Then the rest follows: 2) water, 3) sanitation, and 4) the ability to have enough food stored, or the ability to grow or OBTAIN more....
Bugging out,.... WOW! It's already been a nightmare to get the land, securing the land is next. That alone is mind boggling! Then the regular problems: water, sanitation, and food.
You have to have a place to go, a way to get there, and some way to take and haul all you may need for a prolonged period of time....YIKES!!!
Notice: I did not mention shelter/ I have an abundance of small trees, a couple 12' x 60' mobile homes, and 2 other smalller trailers....Larger trees/poles can still be had, and hauled in.
Expense wise, bugging out is and can be really really expensive!
My problem with bugging in is: the city and the people!
Just the security ISSUE alone, is hard enough to deal with.
Now, Consider a fire!
We had one 2 doors down this evening, and it took the local fire department some 20 minutes to get here! ( they went to the wrong address...again.....they seem to have a real problem with that, since 1996!) We the people, put the kibosh on the illegals idea of a barbecue, that was 12 feet above my son's trailer ( next door to me), and filled about 5 to 6 homes with smoke...our smoke detectors went beserk! Odds are, that group of individuals will NOT be building another fire, not here, and NOT in the future! Hostilities will do that!
If you have a fire in any area, unless you live in a cave, or a stone, or masonry structure, it's gonna be nasty! Mobile homes have a life expectancy of about 2- 3 minutes, at best! I can see the drawbacks to either way anyone chooses to go! I can "line" my mobile homes wih "Gold Bond" 5/8 inch "fireshield" drywall, and give myself some "insurance" that way. If the local area catches fire.... ( brush or forest type) I have to expect to suffer quite a bit of damages, UNLESS, I cut and clear a lot of trees away, and there goes my concealment!
We alkready have been advised by the local county to trim all trees back to 100 feet from any structure and to trim all trees to a 4 ft height from the ground. It really looks weird, (like a freshly manicured french poodle!) and not sure I could live with the looks of that around me! Like I said, it's just WEIRD!

 

Dragonfly, I also live in an older mobil home. When I got it, I gutted it, and rebuilt it to serve my wife and I best, added on this 12 x 20 office and to also give it more stability in the winds up here Then put a real gable roof on it , with metal, then did the elestrometric rubber coating on it. On the inside , not only did I tear out the walls, but also the plumbing and all the elect. Re-did the plumbing with all copper, installed new walls, and all elect. The trimming of the trees back is an excellent idea, as trees catch fire before anything else, burn and then set fire to whatever else is close to them I.E. your mobil homes. Once the trees are trimmed back , now you have an area where you can go off grid should you get the urge. You need open space for solar esp. and it's also a good idea for the wind generators also.

 

Security will be a problem anywhere you are. A family by themselves will be very vulnerable to any predator looking for free food or what ever. Establishing a perimeter or if you prefer a "kill zone" that no one enters may be the only way to help insure your safety. We have an 80+ yard "zone" around our home. Being a house mover gives me plenty of steel beams to "channel" any vehicular traffic to a slow entrance or stop them altogether. Our fall back position gives a 1/4 mile of observable defendable roads. An AP round should stop most any motor from running if needed. Let's hope none of these measures are ever needed and that our efforts are never utilized. But, I had much rather be ready than to have my head in the sand pretending that times are looking a bit shakey in several areas.

 

OK, now lets add to the equasion a little bit. I would ask you to sit back and think very carefully before you answer any of the next part.

It is now the first week of Dec. You and your family have been in the hills for about 2 months. You have managed to build some kind of crude shelter, and helps keep your out of the weather. But it is getting cold, really cold. You have spent almost all your waking hours hunting food, keeping a fire going and trying to build a shelter. But with winter, comes more hardship. The snow is starting to fall, and you realize that you only have enough wood for 4-5 days, and maybe some food, enough for about the same. To add to the problems you have, your youngest or wife is now getting sick . This is as real as it gets. Now how are you going to keep everybody alive through the most brutal months yet in front of you ? Really think this out, because if your one of the people that are planing to bug out to the hills, this is where you will most likely end up, if your lucky.

 

It doesn't matter if you add the equation of a Ninja dropping out of tree on you're head.
It has been done before and it will be happening again.
the simple fact is if your sick you will die just like in the heading west trail days.

I would rather die of exposure, beaver bite what the hell ever it may be than to sit and watch my family raped robbed and or killed just because I'm scared of the hills.
The thing is you have time now to plan and set it up. it can be done, nothing will be easy when the balloon goes up. get used to it.
Put down the bag of Cheetos and put on some cloths and go out and learn something,,,,, try how to eat in the woods year around, cant take winter??? move south now....
this is not directed at you Naja or anyone else just adding my 2 cents.

PS
It is better to die free than to die on your knee's .

 

Hello Panhead. Please forgive me, I am trying to help the city boys learn and think about what they have planned should the need arise. But your advise on moving is a good piece of advise as that is the message I am going to finally get around to. But in order to survive very unfamiliar surroundings you need to correctly asses the situation and your capibalities . But all the imput people are willing to share their time with is always helpful.... Thanks

 

OK...question...do I have my prep stuff with me or not in this scenario, because it makes a world of difference...
If I was 2 months there already, it wouldn't be a crude shelter anymore, it would be underground dwelling...like underground igloo...
If I have my stuff with me, that would mean that I'd have my chlorites with me, and since I normally rarely give my kids antibiotics, I think they would be just fine...Interesting thing is that fewer drugs they take, quicker they recover...Building immunity in good times is essential for bad times.
In my country food and water would not be a problem, since water is everywhere, and we have very few hunters...
Basically, if we have solid shelter, other things are relatively easy...It would be tough situation, but I think we could pull through...and plus, my family has decent fat reserves...all of us! No dieting bull for us!...

 

Well Bane, you got me this time. OK, you will have your supplies with you that you are already planning on taking with you per se. But, understand this, in this country, pretty much everyone heading into the hills will be armed one way or another. As far as drugs are concerned, I feel the same way. My wife can barely force me to take so much as an asprin. I stay healthy because partly I don't go to dr.s and partly because I don't take any meds.

 

AMEN!

I try not to rely on anything modern if possible...Bows, crossbows, slingshots, spears, atlatls...If you have to run for the hills, you can always make arrows, or find rocks for slings...but how much ammo and weapons can you really carry to the mountain? It's another thing if you bug in and you have stocks of ammo and guns, but for a prolonged mountain stay? Trapping, snaring, bow, sling even blowguns are good...and quiet! Imagine shooting in a quiet mountain!

 

Bane, I have spent many a day sitting under cover of some sort waiting for that one shot. When it comes , everyone for several miles and every animal knows what that loud noise is. Me, I use a gun. If I were to try and eat with a sling shot, I would probably just shoot myself in the foot anyway...

 

...I hear you..The point was that we're talking about SHTF in the mountains here...If it's SHTF, one of the main things you want to do is to stay silent and unnoticeable...just in case some other armed hungry, thirsty and in need of shelters zombies are around...For normal every day camping, sure!...fire away!
In SHTF situation I'd put at least 20 traps and snares, and wouldn't be sitting undercover in one place...set the traps, go back to shelter...in the morning, go check the traps, look around for squirrels, birds, foxes, rabbits...anything that moves...If I happen to run into something bigger, bow and crossbow would do the trick, although in forest I'd go with crossbow, since you can lay down and shoot...