What happened to this?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Seacowboys, Feb 19, 2007.


  1. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

  2. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Hey Sea. I see no one has answered your question, so I will give you my take on it.

    A little history.
    The "Patriot" movement in the early 90’s was at its peak and it’s most influential. The Militia groups of the time were respected and recognized for what they were. Citizen home defense units. Many of them worked hand in hand with the local, cash strapped, Sherriff's offices as back up security and search and rescue. Many were very active in local charity work. They were known and respected. Many local LEO's were either members or supportive of them.

    Local and even several state politicians would attend meetings and were often key note speakers at Patriot meetings. And the influence was having an effect. Oklahoma was one of several states that wrote and adopted anti-new world order legislation. But Oklahoma was the first to pass it. IIRC it was designated House Resolution 1194. It was sponsored and signed by 32 Oklahoma State Senators. When it came to the floor it was passed nearly unanamously.

    I don't have the exact wording but it was something to the effect of " The state of Oklahoma will not allow any organization to operate within state boundaries that does not recognize the soverignty of the United States of America and that does not abide by the Constitution for those United States or tries to merge the USA into a NWO. Any organization that would seek to undermine or abolish the USA or the Constitution will be considered an enemy of the state of Oklahoma."

    That is highly paraphrased but it read something similiar to that. It was basically a cease and desist order to any UN or NWO forces that were seeking to establish a foothold in the state. Mark Koernke talks about this in a speech that he gave at the time. I have seen it on video. It was a great victory for the Patriot movement. And it got a lot of notice. Unfortunately.

    It was submitted to the senate for a vote on "Patriots" day, April 19th, just after they re-convened after the Easter break. I am going on memory here, but IIRC it was in 1992, but it could have been a year on one side or the other. Maybe '91. But no matter, exactly three or four years, later to the very day, just a few miles from where this landmark legislation was passed, the Murrah Federal building was blown up. The blast actually shattered windows in some of the very same Senators offices who voted for it.

    Afterwards there were a lot of conflicting reports. One police officer from Mustang Oklahoma, a nearby, nearly suburb of OKC was a first responder that day. He claimed to have seen evidence of explosives in the rubble and took some for evidence. He was on his way to meet his attorney and a reporter to show them the evidence that he had. He never made it. He was found shot in his car beside a rural road. It was ruled a suicide, no evidence was ever found. A member of a group that I was associated with was a paramedic. He was one of the first on the scene. This former military man personally told me and others that he saw det cord and bundled explosives that looked to him like C4. He said anyone who was in the rubble of that building knew that it was not brought down by a fertilizer bomb.

    A later theory that emerged was that the ATF, who were housed in the building had, unlawfully, stored some explosive materials in the basement and that was what people had reported seeing and the reason for the apparent cover up.

    I won't go into all the inconsistencies of the stories that were circulated to explain what people saw and heard. And all the conflicting details. But the one thing that convinced me that the official story was a load of BS, is when they started telling me that I didn't hear, feel, and see, what I personally did.

    I was only a few miles away when it happened and I felt the concussions, I heard the blasts.
    But the official story is that a lone man parked a van full of drums of diesel fuel and fertilizer outside the building and that when it blew up it brought down half of the structure.
    But I know what I heard and felt and it was not one blast. It was several in a row. And no official story or lamestream media explanations will ever change the fact of what I heard and felt. So I knew, that they were lying.

    But back to the history lesson. When it came out that this right wing extremist type had been responsible, those who had been loud and vocal supporters of freedom were soon silent. Membership in groups around the country drooped like a hot stone and Militia and Patriot became a dirty word, a bad thing. And HR1194 was silently and without any fan fare whatsoever repealed. The message was sent and recieved, loud and clear.

    The attack and demonization of Patriots began in earnest a couple of years later.

    So when I saw the inconsistancies and the rush to explain and blame after 9/11, I had no problem accepting the idea that the official story was bogus.

    So I hope that answers your question SC. The whole thing was a message and a warning shot, and it had the desired effect. But that's just the opinion of a crazy right wing conspiracy nut.
     
  3. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Ya think??

    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5271117


    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=8 width=743 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center>Affidavit: McVeigh had high-level help

    </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center>According to Oklahoma bombing conspirator, ranking officials were involved in the attack

    </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center>By Pamela Manson
    The Salt Lake Tribune

    Salt Lake Tribune

    </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center>Article Last Updated:02/22/2007 03:36:05 PM MST

    </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center height=10>
    </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center>Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols says a high-ranking FBI official "apparently" was directing Timothy McVeigh in the plot to blow up a government building and might have changed the original target of the attack, according to a new affidavit filed in U.S. District Court in Utah.
    The official and other conspirators are being protected by the federal government "in a cover-up to escape its responsibility for the loss of life in Oklahoma," Nichols claims in a Feb. 9 affidavit.
    Documents that supposedly help back up his allegations have been sealed to protect information in them, such as Social Security numbers and dates of birth.
    The U.S. Attorney's Office in Utah had no comment on the allegations. The FBI and Justice Department in Washington, D.C., also declined comment.
    Nichols does not say what motive the government would have to be involved in the bombing.
    The affidavit was filed in a lawsuit brought by Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue, who believes his brother's death in a federal prison was linked to the Oklahoma City bombing. The suit, which seeks documents from the FBI under the federal Freedom of Information Act, alleges that authorities mistook Kenneth Trentadue for a bombing conspirator and that guards killed him in an interrogation that got out of hand.
    Trentadue's death a few months after the April 19, 1995, bombing was ruled a suicide after several investigations. The government has adamantly denied any wrongdoing in the death.
    In his affidavit, Nichols says he wants to bring closure to the survivors and families of the attack on the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, which took 168 lives. He alleges he wrote then-Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2004, offering to help identify all parties who played a role in the bombing but never got a reply.
    Nichols is serving a life sentence at the U.S. Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colo. McVeigh, who carried out the bombing, was executed in 2001.
    McVeigh and Nichols were the only defendants indicted in the bombing. However, Nichols alleges others were involved.
    McVeigh told him he was recruited for undercover missions while serving in the military, according to Nichols. He says he learned sometime in 1995 that there had been a change in the bombing target and that McVeigh was upset by that.
    "There, in what I believe was an accidental slip of the tongue, McVeigh revealed the identity of a high-ranking FBI official who was apparently directing McVeigh in the bomb plot," Nichols says in the affidavit.
    Nichols also says that McVeigh threatened him and his family to force him to rob Roger Moore, an Arkansas gun dealer, of weapons and explosives. He later learned the robbery was staged so Moore, who was in on the phony heist, could deny any knowledge of the bombing plot if the stolen items were traced back to him, Nichols claims.
    He adds that Moore allegedly told his attorney that he would not be prosecuted in connection with the bombing because he was a "protected witness."
    Moore could not be reached for comment Tuesday.
    In addition, Nichols says McVeigh must have had help building the bomb. The device he and McVeigh built the day before the bombing did not resemble the one that ultimately was used, Nichols says, and "displayed a level of expertise and sophistication" that neither man had.
    pmanson@sltrib.com



    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
  4. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Here you go Sea, your a musician, maybe you can include this in your reportoir.

    Written by Carl Klang
    http://www.klang.com/

    The OKC Bomb Song


    Now it'll go down in history as a terrible day
    When those Oklahoma bombs blew that building away
    A hundred and sixty nine people died
    While the media lashed out and the government lied

    Seems the press and the FBI they stirred it all up
    They blamed it on Iraqis in a brown pick up truck
    But before they were through with their agenda that night
    They were blamin' anybody who might lean to the right
    They blamed those far right wild eyed anti-federal activist
    Those mean extreme right winged domestic terrorist
    Those hate filled ill willed demoned white supremacists

    That’s the enemy
    But it sounds kinda' strange to me
    As they whipped up the witch hunt for a second John Doe
    I heard President Clinton blastin' talk radio
    Seems he wants me to turn in anybody I meet
    Who might listen to Chuck Harder as they drive down the street

    'Cause they're a far right wild eyed anti-federal activist
    A genuine borderline Neo Nazi Racialist
    A Mossad Jihad Christian Fundamentalist
    That's the enemy
    So extreme!
    Which means it could be you or me

    Now there's so may questions that just won't go away
    Like why the ATF didn't show for work on that day
    When asked by a lady why they didn't show up
    They said "If I were you ma'am I'd keep my mouth shut!"
    And blame those far right wild eyed anti-federal activists
    Those paranoid Sigmund Freud schizoid isolationist
    We like scape goats Christian Fundamentalists
    They're the enemy

    Now if you're still a member of the NRA
    Then you best be very careful of the words that you say
    You still can call your M-14 a hunting gun
    But don't ever call a federal cop a Jack-Booted Thug
    If you're a far right wild eyed anti-federal activist
    A mean extreme right winged domestic terrorist
    A hate filled ill willed demon white supremacist
    A Mossad Jihad Christian Fundamentalist
    A genuine borderline neo-nazi racialist
    A brain washed camouflage crazy Christian Patriot
    A paranoid Sigmund Freud schizoid isolationist
    A homophobe Xenophobe rabid Anti-semetist
    Anti this....
     
  5. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    bump...for an interesting thread /song lyrics...and some history I never heard before( anti-un/nwo bill passing...)
     
  6. thepatriot1976

    thepatriot1976 Resigned Membership

    Ditto Minuteman,
    We were the first 911!:mad:
     
  7. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Please allow me to introduce myself
    Im a man of wealth and taste
    Ive been around for a long, long year
    Stole many a mans soul and faith
    And I was round when jesus christ
    Had his moment of doubt and pain
    Made damn sure that pilate
    Washed his hands and sealed his fate
    Pleased to meet you
    Hope you guess my name
    But whats puzzling you
    Is the nature of my game
    I stuck around st. petersburg
    When I saw it was a time for a change
    Killed the czar and his ministers
    Anastasia screamed in vain
    I rode a tank
    Held a generals rank
    When the blitzkrieg raged
    And the bodies stank
    Pleased to meet you
    Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
    Ah, whats puzzling you
    Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
    I watched with glee
    While your kings and queens
    Fought for ten decades
    For the gods they made
    I shouted out,
    Who killed the kennedys?
    When after all
    It was you and me
    Let me please introduce myself
    Im a man of wealth and taste
    And I laid traps for troubadours
    Who get killed before they reached bombay
    Pleased to meet you
    Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
    But whats puzzling you
    Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
    Pleased to meet you
    Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
    But whats confusing you
    Is just the nature of my game
    Just as every cop is a criminal
    And all the sinners saints
    As heads is tails
    Just call me lucifer
    cause Im in need of some restraint
    So if you meet me
    Have some courtesy
    Have some sympathy, and some taste
    Use all your well-learned politesse
    Or Ill lay your soul to waste, um yeah
    Pleased to meet you
    Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
    But whats puzzling you
    Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
    Woo, who
    Oh yeah, get on down
    Oh yeah
    Oh yeah!
    Tell me baby, whats my name
    Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
    Tell me baby, whats my name
    I tell you one time, youre to blame
    Ooo, who
    Ooo, who
    Ooo, who
    Ooo, who, who
    Ooo, who, who
    Ooo, who, who
    Ooo, who, who
    Oh, yeah
    Whats me name
    Tell me, baby, whats my name
    Tell me, sweetie, whats my name
    Ooo, who, who
    Ooo, who, who
    Ooo, who, who
    Ooo, who, who
    Ooo, who, who
    Ooo, who, who
    Ooo, who, who
    Oh, yeah
     
  8. thepatriot1976

    thepatriot1976 Resigned Membership

    SeaCowboy, your the devil? Damn Man :evil:

    [ROFL]
     
  9. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    If you ever met him in a dark ally you might think so!!!!


    :lol:
     
  10. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Especially if he's coming off a seamonkey rage --
     
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