What is Freedom?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Ganado, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    I've started this thread, hoping for discussion. On this site we throw out the word 'freedom' like it means the same thing for all of us. Freedom means different things to each of us.

    For me its about being able to choose. Choose my career, my friends, my lovers, my opinions, my lifestyle and being responsible for the consequences of my choices.

    For some people freedom means feeling accepted or loved.

    What does it mean to be 'free' to you?
  2. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    Freedom from fear is the freedom
    I claim for you my motherland!
    Freedom from the burden of the ages, bending your head,
    breaking your back, blinding your eyes to the beckoning
    call of the future;
    Freedom from the shackles of slumber wherewith
    you fasten yourself in night's stillness,
    mistrusting the star that speaks of truth's adventurous paths;
    freedom from the anarchy of destiny
    whole sails are weakly yielded to the blind uncertain winds,
    and the helm to a hand ever rigid and cold as death.
    Freedom from the insult of dwelling in a puppet's world,
    where movements are started through brainless wires,
    repeated through mindless habits,
    where figures wait with patience and obedience for the
    master of show,
    to be stirred into a mimicry of life.

    Rabindranath Tagore
  3. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    Freedom is never having to say you're sorry.
  4. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Whoa! Not sure I can do this in one posting as it needs thought, deep thought...think it best if I prioritize but I am sure I will have to add and/or edit this:

    1. self-determination (definition: the process by which a person controls their own life.)
    I believe this encompasses many things such as 'freedom of choice', I determine how to protect myself and family, I determine how to live my life (what is morally good/bad, right/wrong), I determine my destiny...

    2. Freedom of Speech (to not be afraid to speak one's mind or say what one thinks is an amazing freedom)

    3. Freedom to Worship as I chose or not to worship (this might be part of 'self-determination')

    4. Innocent until proven guilty (sort of amendments 5, 6 and 7 rolled into one. This is something we truly take for granted these days and we shouldn't!)

    I need to think about this some more...Financial freedom means a lot to me also and it enhances my freedom mostly by, again, supporting my self-determination, doing what I want to do and not what I have to do or am forced to do. I need more thought on this...
  5. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    Freedom is something I had as a child. I really not sure if I'm truly free anymore
  6. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Freedom is a celebration of the Gift of Live, something to be cherished and fought for, and to even die for! Freedom is the God given right to self determination and destiny! Freedom is a mans very existence, to eat, drink, and provide shelter and warmth for him self and his family! Freedom is a mans right to worship how he sees fit, believing in what ever he believes in with out question! Freedom means Never bending the knee to any mortal man, swearing no oath of obedience and entering into no contracts of fealty! Freedom means having the right to self preservation and self protection from any and all threats to his gift of life and that of those he is bound to protect! Freedom means a man can build his wealth and his self worth and value with the blood and sweat of bis brow, and that no other man may take from him that what is not freely given! Freedom means never answering to any laws of men, nor any mans idea of what you should and should not do, who and what you should or should not be, and where you should or should not live! Freedom means never having to ask for, pay a tax or fee for, any food that exists in nature or grown by the man who raises it! Freedom is being left alone by others, even those who disagree with you and your choices! Freedom means never having to fight to hold or keep what is yours including your land, and never having to pay taxes, fees, or other bills on what you own!
    Gator 45/70, Motomom34, Dont and 4 others like this.
  7. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++

    Just another word for nothing left to lose
  8. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    I can absolutely relate to that, and I've done my best to be sure that every child in my family gets to grow up the way I did. I was free to climb to the tops of the highest trees, sled down the steepest hills, jump out of the boat and swim in the coldest Northern lakes. I seldom went anywhere on my bike without a BB gun, or later a Ruger 10/22 across the handle bars. Nobody ever said a word to me about it. I was free to experiment with edible plants, alcohol, and cooking wild game... usually in that order. I played with fire, explosives, and girls and learned to respect them. I was free to make mistakes and learn from them, but there was never any doubt that I'd get in trouble if I did anything that harmed others, the property of others, or was shameful. It wasn't just my parents I'd have to face. I respected them. But if Grandma found out... that was what always kept me in line as a child.

    I still consider myself free. I understand taxes and regulations and why they're necessary. I might be more considerate, and not blow a stump, fire a cannon, or set fire to a brush lot without letting the local police or fire department know first, but I don't call to ask their permission. It usually saves them a trip, or on a slow day gives them something to watch. I still think it's nobodies business but mine if I do something potentially dangerous, if it will only harm me.

    Responsibility and love for my family is the only thing that keeps me from stuffing my saddle bags with cash and wandering off. That'll be the freedom of retirement.
  9. smithcp2002

    smithcp2002 Monkey+++

    True freedom is having nothing but your life left to lose for others.
  10. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Every Human has Freedom, (Free Will) It is a Gift of the Creator... You are the only one that can control your actions... Now with Freedom comes Responsibility, for your actions which may be imposed by your own Conscious, by Society in General, by another Human, or by Mother Nature... If you choose to violate any of those norms, then you and only you are responsible for the consequences that derive from those actions... If you violate the Laws of Gravity, Mother Nature causes you to fall down... If you violate another Humans space, you are responsible for that action and it's consequences... Same with Society... But if you violate your own Conscious, you are only accountable to your Maker... That is how I see it....
  11. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    great answers sounds like most of you have thought about it alot

    Freedom is different for everyone and overall the same for most of us, freedom to express ourselves. But what if your idea of freedom clashes with mine. Not everyone fits within the judeo/christian/muslim idea of 'normal'.

    Is it freedom oppress someone who has a different nationality, religion, sexual orientation or creed?

    Are you a supporter of freedom or just freedom for people who fit your ideals.
    Gator 45/70, Motomom34 and Ura-Ki like this.
  12. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    ,"Is it freedom to oppress someone who has a different nationality, religion, sexual orientation or creed?"
    "Are you a supporter of freedom or just freedom for people who fit your ideals."

    In answer to your first question, my idea of freedom would not encompass oppressing anyone for anything, sort of goes against the grain of what I consider to be freedom - I mean - I value self-determination very much so how can I value it but take it away from someone else? No. I could not.

    To answer to your second question is...much tougher and will take some soul searching to answer... I definitely support my freedom but I am unsure if I support yours. Why?

    First, why should I, shouldn't you support it yourself?

    Second, how do I know exactly what you consider to be freedom? For example, we go to some Muslim country to assist them in finding 'freedom' or free them from some tyrant but their freedom is different from ours, greatly different so in the end they feel less free than before and despise us for ruining their lives, country and 'freedom'.

    Third, again, why should I because what if they use my support to bad ends? For example, I use to support the LBGT community because I thought they got the bad end of the stick but what has happened. Come to find out they didn't want my idea of freedom and (again!) their idea of freedom is much different than mine and they have used the support from me and others (Public support/opinion) to wreck havoc on people's lives who want nothing more than to simply want to be left alone to live as they wish, not as the LBGT want them to...

    So, in answer to your second question, life has taught me NOT to be a supporter of others freedom. Freedom is something they have to do themselves because only they know what they want. This is totally against what I was taught throughout school but life is a harsh mistress and I got lots of experience, besides; they lied about everything else in school too so... But, again, I think freedom is something that a person or a people must define themselves.

    "supporter...just freedom for people who fit your ideals." To some extent, yes. For example, John Doe says "Bandit, we would like you to support the 2nd Amendment with us against the radicals that wish to dissolve it." Sure! Count me in! But, what happens when those same 2nd Amendment guys want to teach firearm training in 1st grade? No. So, it is not an 'all or nothing' answer, my support is specific.

    In general, I think if America tended to its own knitting and simply supported ourselves instead of numerous countries because we think they are like us or they should be like us - well - we and the world would be much better off.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  13. UncleMorgan

    UncleMorgan I like peeling bananas and (occasionally) people.

    "An' it harm none, do what ye will."

    To interfere with the freedom of another is to do them harm,
    exactly as harm is done when someone interferes with yours.

    Freedom doesn't have to be complicated.

    It just has to be lived, moment by moment.

    And defended when necessary.
    Zimmy, Ura-Ki, Gator 45/70 and 5 others like this.
  14. aardbewoner

    aardbewoner judge a human on how he act,not on look and talk.

    The illusion you are in control.
    Ura-Ki and Gator 45/70 like this.
  15. oldman11

    oldman11 Monkey+++

    Too much freedom is very dangerous,just look at were we are today.
    Ura-Ki and Gator 45/70 like this.
  16. snake6264

    snake6264 Combat flip flop douchebag

    I support Freedom in most of its forms If you want to be Gay or what ever you want to call yourself fine not really any of my business take it up with the maker when you see him her whatever. You are free to listen to whatever crap music you want vote eat sleep F*#k who you want I don't care!!! Break my code I will care more than you bargained for
  17. Motomom34

    Motomom34 Monkey+++

    What is freedom? I actually have no clue. Someone said they had more freedom as a child, I can agree with that because children do not have the burden of responsibility that adults have. A child can spend the day coloring, making a fort and the only responsibility that is their is to clean up their mess, make their bed and clean their plate. So do children really have more freedom than adults? They can't vote or have a job till a certain age, nor can they freely live on their own at the age of 15. So I guess freedom as a child/teen comes with conditions.

    They say land of the free, home of the brave. I was born and raised in allegedly the freest country in the world. I have never lived anywhere else so I do not know if that is true. I hear the phrase giving up freedoms for the protection of all. Freedom to own a home, freedom to choose a profession, freedom to drive a car, freedom to vote..... but all those things come with conditions and/or rules that one needs to follow in order to have those freedoms. A free society with rules. Rules we are free to make as a society.

    So what is freedom?
    ~the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint.
    ~the state of not being imprisoned or enslaved.

    That ^^^ is the definition. I believe freedom could be just a word, a concept. Freedom is the carrot dangling in front of ones nose. You can see it but you can never have it; it is always slightly out of your reach.
  18. Bishop

    Bishop Monkey+++

    There's no freedom we are all slaves to some things but if you look to the bad it will always be bad if you look to the good it will always be good so I guess freedom is a state of mind.
    Ura-Ki and Gator 45/70 like this.
  19. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I can remember a time when a man got off work,Stopped at a store,Bought a few beers and sat an open can on his dashboard in full view while driving home with no seat-belt on.........Try that nowadays!
    Ganado, oldawg, Alf60 and 3 others like this.
  20. hot diggity

    hot diggity Monkey+++ Site Supporter+++

    Ah, that looks familiar. I see the Wiccan Rede as simply their version of the Golden Rule... Matthew 7:12. When I first met some of these folks I was surprised that it wasn't just a Halloween thing with them. They'd followed Wicca for generations. More recently, a cashier at the gas station mentioned that her wife was sick and she had to take her some tissues or something. I didn't even blink. It might be the area, but I feel fortunate to be exposed to such a variety of people who all get along. Nobody burning police cars, beating shoppers with bicycle locks or setting fires in trash cans to protest not getting their way, or demanding that I change my ways to fit their whims.

    Lots of freedom to live the way you choose here. Sometimes we even lets Libertarians run for State office. ;)
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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