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What is Freedom?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by Ganado, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    FWIW, we have at least two Wiccan members (haven't heard from them in a while, pretty inactive.)

    Be careful how loosely you define "freedom" lest someone find loopholes in your definition. If you doubt, take a look at any legislation that seems to restrict a specific freedom, and read the definitions contained in the bills.
  2. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    How sad is it that being gay is our standard of freedom?

    Freedom has three areas of application. They are:

    Physical - this is when you are chained, slaved, made to work etc.
    Spiritual - this is a broad category but essentially it comes down to the freedom to believe what you want to believe.
    Mental - this is the hardest to recognize because there are none so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. This is being tricked into thinking that you are free when you are not.

    With every freedom you have comes a responsibility. This is why it is easy to take away freedoms. One must simply be made afraid that others will not follow up on the responsibility that comes with it. Example:

    The freedom to have arms is the responsibility not to hurt. Defense is ok. Wars of aggression are not.

    These definitions are very broad because you have to understand them in order to enjoy them. I would argue that even very well educated people do not understand them. They are our most precious resource and people throw them away with out a thought. Much worse than that they vote on taking them away from others as if they were off to a picnic with out ANY thought to the damage they are causing others.
  3. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I am free until I get caught.
    Ganado, VisuTrac, Alf60 and 3 others like this.
  4. RightHand

    RightHand Maslow's Contradiction Moderator Founding Member

    As it applies to me as an individual, freedom is having the option of choice limited only by the law of the land and having the ability and talent to sustain those choices. Much like Ganado, that is personal freedom to me. Taken in the larger context of society and culture, rather than seeing freedom as a condition of life, I believe it is the result of living without fear of what can be done TO US.
  5. Bishop

    Bishop Monkey+++

    This is not freedom

    oldman11 and Gator 45/70 like this.
  6. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Actually it is the ultimate Freedom... He made a Choice and lived with the consequences of his Choice... That is FREEDOM...
    Ganado, oldman11, Gator 45/70 and 2 others like this.
  7. Zimmy

    Zimmy Wait, I'm not ready! Site Supporter++

    I have to think on this.

    Great question
    oldman11 and Gator 45/70 like this.
  8. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I like freedom and the governance of standards ,with out which we would not have developed the quality of life we have today.
    The beginning of this country were people escaping a world of so many mixed standards confusion and ignorance prevailed and those with a clue were ridiculed, even killed publicly for their difference of opinion .
    It was worth the risk going 3,716 miles across the ocean to another land and starting over again a great many of which were protestant Christian.
    They sought freedom from the catholic church , in later years My grand parents too made the journey for the same reason .
    Wicked men got in religion for the power over men, not reverence for God ,and they abused that power manipulating governments .
    Moral standards built a society people learned to respect one another they needed one another to survive and with an accountability to one another and to God for those that took their faith seriously.
    Every one was free to move on and explore the land further some taking their traditions with them and some learning to live in the wild and coping with the indigenous both aggressively and peacefully . Any thing different is to be feared till proven otherwise .
    Men with low or no moral standards took, and those with morals negotiated .
    Indians wared against Indians too you know. 562 different tribes. Some worship the wolf ,some eat the wolf , and the fight continues.
    Indians were free but they to knew they needed standards ,values that differed from one another . They had to learn and teach one another what was eatable and what was not by tradition and superstition even fear that would keep them alive.
    Standards matter
    Practically every thing you own is built with standards that must be met some how during it's manufacture. nuts and bolts and washer and all machinery and all electronics and plastics and medical devices all are built under very critical standards.
    our standards of manufacture made America great and other countries sub standards were shunned in the rest of the world .
    Not so much now however . ,unions marked the decline of quality "IMO"
    I digress ,
    We have the freedom to make workable ideas, and we have the freedom to fail . success takes a lot of failure ,ask Edison .
    America is the invention capitol of the world, almost since it's inception .
    Our success is why we are hated in the world .
    But lets look at it, who stops any one from inventing ?
    Ones self ? obviously education has to do with some of it but there were those educated in the 1400s ,oh ya they were shunned .
    Did you know that Hypocrites created the method for turning the lens over in the eye to treat cataracts ? that was a few thousand years ago but the information was lost due to the "educated" arrogant . And the tools they use now are almost identical to his .
    He was allowed to create ,and it made a difference for the lives of others in his time .
    I have an addiction for learning how things are done and processes and chemistry and so many things , inevitably my jobs benefitted with these skills and though I was not highly educated the freedom to learn on my own was my PHD if you will .
  9. apache235

    apache235 Monkey+++

    As I see it today, we have a high percentage of our population that has no moral standard, they have kicked God out of the equation and their attitude is let someone else do it, it's not my job. They are content to be led like sheep and can see no further than their next paycheck or meal, they have no understanding of our history - or any history for that matter, and no desire to learn anything useful and that's just where the evil powers that be want them. Now they are too stupid (ill educated) to care. Can we regain what we had 200 years ago? Not without a serious reset and I'm not so sure about that.
    Gator 45/70, Merkun and oldman11 like this.
  10. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Monkey+++ Founding Member

    .... this is as close as I can define it for the most part. Don’t tell me who to love, what God I should worship, if any, what I can or can do for enjoyment or how I live my life. At the same time I should have the same respect for others and understand the points where I may need to compromise when my freedom and that of another collide, while also having a like compromise made for me It is not totalitarian, but about choice and understanding. Live and let live seems to ring true somehow.
  11. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    No one would like absolute freedom. There will always be those who do not respect or recognize your right to your freedom which will require you to do something to protect your sovereignty. Most won't or can't do that and that brings us to rules, laws, law enforcement, constitutions, and the losses of freedoms to insure everyone's space is respected. Even then, there are those who do not recognize those established norms and try to encroach upon another. A person is only totally free when their decisions in life and the life they live affects no one but themselves. Otherwise ones freedom is compromised by their submission to another's will.


    No Laws, No Taxes, No Government, No Neighbors, and one is only encumbered by the result of ones own decisions.
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  12. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    As noted by varied thoughts posted here , Freedom , can mean different things to different people.

    I would also toss out the idea that one can own stuff...but don't let what you own , own you...
    Or get too wrapped up in someone else's idea of who you are , or who you "need to be".
  13. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    some great discussion thank you all for engaging.

    I have some basic principles I live by, freedom being one of them and respect.

    I also know that principals and things aka owning stuff can own you if you let it. Another version of freedom is being able to let go when you need to.
    Gator 45/70 and AndyinEverson like this.
  14. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    I have the freedom to build a car with a wheel base of 12 feet wide but what good is it if I cannot drive it on the road ?
    do I have the right to demand the road be redesigned to fit my car ?
    They limit my freedom . not fair . I should have the right to use my car any where I want ,why should I have to conform to the common design ?
    So I use a stick for a brake , it works ,eventually . and it's safe as long as no one gets in my way .
    Why have standards , they only box people in .
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  15. Ganado

    Ganado Monkey+++

    personal freedom definitely gets infringed on by 'standards and morals and government regulations'

    I was speaking more about what is freedom mean for you as a person.

    We all get crossways with rules laws, regulations and that is why we have lawyers lol

    (dude hold my beer) everyone has done something that goes against society standards or regulations

    I still think you can be free within the 'standards' of society.
    Gator 45/70 and Dunerunner like this.
  16. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Freedom is like having a cold . you can share it but is it the right thing to do ?
    Gator 45/70 likes this.
  17. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator


    The freedom to make a decision without being second guessed \
    The freedom to spend what I earn the way I want
    The freedom to choose the projects I want to do
    The freedom to watch the TV I want to watch
    Gator 45/70 and Ganado like this.
  18. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson Black Powder Monkey

    laws and regulations only work if someone is willing to abide by them.
    You are free to do whatever you want...
    With that said , you must also be willing to accept the responsibility and consequences of your actions.

    Personally I wish to harm no one and try to respect all who I come into contact with...
    The downside to this , is that some folks , mistake being polite , respectful and soft spoken as weakness.
    The upside to this , is that I have the freedom to teach them the error of their ways....:D
    ( Just kidding with that last sentence , kinda )
    Cruisin Sloth, Gator 45/70 and Ganado like this.
  19. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    The beauty of this country is that it was designed so that we could all be free. Unfortunately the lowest common denominator does not understand this and those who do will not teach the rest. There is a maxim at law that says "let him who would be deceived, be deceived." This is the rule by which all courts operate. If you do not know the law they have brought against you then you will lose. It is already a given. I went to a court house to sit in on the proceedings and there were about 150 people going for the judge in a mad dash to hand over their money and/or freedom. Not a single one plead anything but guilty/no contest. Even when they judge told them that they had a very good case and begged them to, they refused.

    We are currently using English law just like most of the rest of the world. There are many other types of law including Moorish Law, Ecclesiastic Law, Scottish Law, etc. The court will enforce any of those as they are also defined in Bouviers and Black's law books right along side our Latin law.

    What does this mean for us? It is both good and bad. It means uneducated people will not comprehend the freedoms they are given by birth right in this country. It means that the Republic will die due to lack of education... if it hasn't already.

    I watched a TV show, an old rerun of Bonanza, and Lorne Greene's character had to go to court to prove land and property rights. I was quite surprised to see it on TV because they blatantly showed how we used to have land ownership (instead of real estate) but more so it pointed out the freedom and rights we had lost since then. The show is not that old but the amount of freedom usurped in the last 100 years was astounding.

    The good news is that if you can do the research and educate yourself you can actually be free. The biggest problem is that you will need to lift up those around you to make it work. Example, if the police stop you and are ignorant of the law then YOU will suffer for it. You must raise them up to your level. The Constitution guarantees you the right to travel, but, Driving is a privilege that you need a permit to do. Any time you need a permit or license to do something you are declaring that you are incompetent because how can it be illegal to do something that is not a crime? Can you get a license to murder? Can you get a permit to destroy others property? So why do you need a permit to drive? Because the LEGAL definition of DRIVE is conducting business and all business is regulated. I had a cop tell me that my registration was expired and not paying it was TAX EVASION.

    Team Law's Home Page

    Be warned. The rabbit hole is deep but the Matrix is real.
    Benjamin A. Wood and Gator 45/70 like this.
  20. enloopious

    enloopious Rocket Surgeon

    You ARE free to do that. Common sense tells you that it will not work. The law is supposed to be a reflection of the actual laws of the world. That's why they call it color of law. What goes up must come down, energy can never die, and you kill someone and you are killed. If you look at the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution you will see that they are descriptions of our freedoms and rights. They are not laws but simply outlines or examples of our freedom. None of it has driving regulations in it because they have nothing to do with the law.

    I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this but those people are the ones who do not want to take responsibility for their actions. We are a nation of children asking to be governed. Some people go their whole life and never grow up. What is honor? Do you even know? Your honor is equivalent to your life. If you lose your honor you lose your life. This is the way it used to be and with good reason. It kept people from being children their whole lives. Children hide broken things, pretend it didn't happen, or cry to get their way etc. They need parenting.

    If you build a car with a stick for a break and you kill someone you are responsible. If you are not mature enough to take responsibility for those actions it is the law's duty to make you. That is the WHOLE of the duty of the law and the ONLY reason it was made, and even still it fails, sometimes horribly. In theory it would only apply to corporations because they have no soul and adults take responsibility for their own actions. Then the law was adjusted so that children and retards couldn't be tried as competent. This didn't work so they just declared everyone incompetent with the 13th amendment onward and the new deal and pretty much everything since.

    People try ridiculous things and then get upset when they are held responsible. The stupid laws we have on the books are there because of stupid people doing stupid things. Instead of letting these things work themselves out as they should, they write some stupid ass law that makes everyone else suffer, but most important, stops smart people from advancing our species. Every time someone tries to stop an imaginary evil from happening you lose a freedom. EVERY TIME.

    50 dumb laws in America
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