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What is your Stance?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Galactus, Jan 27, 2006.

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  1. Galactus

    Galactus Monkey+++ Founding Member


  2. CRC

    CRC Survivor of Tidal Waves | RIP 7-24-2015 Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I have one....

    and it's not pretty....

    Having been the victim of a Crystal Meth addict as recent as less than a year ago? And being almost wiped out?

    Well.....Let me think on how to phrase it...

    Because I have different thoughts on different drugs....really..I do...

    But do not call them "victimles crimes"....I get soooooo :evil: when I hear that...

    I have a story...and it was not victimless......

    Let me think about it before answering.....

    Thanks Galactus..for asking this..I am curious too....
  3. Galactus

    Galactus Monkey+++ Founding Member

  4. CRC

    CRC Survivor of Tidal Waves | RIP 7-24-2015 Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    Yes, it should...and right now..I need to sit, drink a cup of coffee and gather my thoughts before respoding out of anger, and dang near rage......

    It took a lot to climb out of the hole they left me in..Financially, Emotionally, etc.....

    and I found out , that yes...Life is tough....

    But I'm tougher. [winkthumb]

    Give me a pot of coffee or at least a few cups...I'll be back.....count on it!
  5. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    I think it's definitely a problem. The "war on drugs?" We're losing.

    They're too cheap and too easy to get (go ask your middle school student) and the man-made, "designer" drugs are killing the kids that they're marketed to.

    Of course, the illegal drugs in our country do support quite a few jobs; (part of) Law enforcement, DEA, drug counselors, lawyers, correction officers, etc. Where would those people be without the drugs which are causing the problems that support their industry?
  6. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    My personal thought is legalize it all. If they are legal it removes a lot of the violence because it removes a lot of the cost of smuggeling and so on just like booze in the 20s really created the mob and once prohibition was over they had to find other things to make the money from. Second if its legal it can be regulated better than it currently is and those drugs that tend to cause more violent reactions could be restricted to use in areas where it is only others chooseing to destroy themselves with them anyway. Drugs are so easy to get now that selling them at the convenience stores would not make them any easier to get just easier to regulate. If people are going to flush their lives on the crap they will do so regardless of laws so let them do it in a manner that costs society less. By legalizeing the drugs they can then do their 'sin taxes' on them the same as they do on alcohol or more like tobaco where as much as 90% of the cost is tax, if the profit for smuggeling dosnt have to be there the cost of manufactureing the drugs is so cheap they could cut the prices even lower than they are now on the streets and make billions of dollars each year in taxes that could go to law enforcement to make sure that ny of those chooseing to use drugs that are not being taxed and those commiting other crimes weather drug related or not can be put in or under the jails that could be expanded with all the new revenew. A part of this money could also be used to continue drug education and even expand it in schools so that anyone useing the drugs is fully informed ahead of time (as they tend to be already if they admit it or not) of exactly what it is they are doing to them selves and what they can look forward to.
    So baiscly my stance is, if they want to kill themselves let them so we can be rid of them and let them pay society for the privlige of doing so. Haveing them illegal sure as the hell dont work the way its being done so its either make them legal or make it a capitol crime and execute all the users as well as dealers or keep liveing with the scum and crap that it creates, especialy in the case of some of the drugs like meth, crack, heroin and some others. Oh and that ANY drug which has medicinal value should be able to be perscribed or used for the medicinal purposes.
  7. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    I think the "war" is a waste of money and resources. I'm pretty Libertarian in most of my core beliefs. I know I'd rather have an altercation with a guy who just smoked a joint than a guy that just killed a half pint of Jack.

    I think the laws regarding Alcohol and 'most' drugs are at odds with each other.

    I also believe that the 'new' drugs that come out are a result of the "war". If people who chose to use something had it in their Gardens, we wouldn't need to mix a 100 deadly chemicals together, light them on fire, and see how it felt.

    If , say, Pot were legal, I still wouldn't use it. I can't, (Tried in College), didn't agree with me. I tend to be a live and let live sort of guy. If it works for you, so be it so long as it doesn't hurt me.

    I think that hardcore use of hardcore drugs, if legalized, would sort itself out...

    I feel for your sit CRC. but if Meth wasn't around, he'd prolly have found Alcohol. if that wasn't around:

    As Dennis Miller once said, "If we took away all the drugs in the world, You'd have people who went into their backyards and spun in circles until they saw God."

    I see a great Hypocrisy in The Powers That Be punishing someone for Pot while a Doctor a block away prescribes Vallium or ZoLoft to his mother. Our world without Drug laws would not be a perfect one... I don't think it would be much worse than we have now either.

    War on Drugs? Didn't GW's daughters get busted for Pot o_O
    Yeah, Keep throwing my money at that!

    Bottom line for melbo:
    We need to be consistent. If we don't like Pot or Coke or Heroin. Don't let me buy a 6 pack and get a scrip for a "relaxer"... Hell, I think I could find a natural 'relaxer' that may have less side effects than a synthetic one.

    And those Jobs in the DEA? Screw em.... Do they really want the war to be won? Wouldn't that put them out of Jobs then anyway? I think this goes a bit deeper into the rabbit hole myself. Criminal Justice is big business. Building new Jails/Prisons in your State? I bet they are. 10 yrs ago, we had 2 million US citizens incarcerated. Now we have 7 million. Start counting up all those Probation fees, Mandatory "Classes", Tax Dollars, etc...

    Wars on anything are good for the economy and jobs.... whether they are right or wrong.

  8. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    ghrit's take:

    Legalize recreational drugs for "mature" people, that is, those of an age sufficient to recognize the risks and consciously take them. The economic benefits are certainly arguable, there probably would be social costs (for example, health care) that are likely no worse than acohol or smoking. But for those that are today "pushers" or whatever they call 'em now, there is nothing less than death on my mind, both now and if/when drugs are legalized. Hooking the kids is as bad or worse than letting sociopaths out of prison.

    A side debate can easily be started over substances that are addictive to the point of encouraging crime in support of a habit. I don't see that meth (for example) habituation will have a lesser effect on the users if it is legalized than if it remains criminal. Meth users sink fast to the point where no matter how cheap the drug is they can't afford it since they can't maintain an income. Meaning that crime will not reduce, just delay the onset until the cost is lower than it is now.

    Thus spake me, and me only.
  9. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    Oh yeah... A point was made that lit an old flame: I used to work for a construction company and like all "good little companies" :rolleyes: do; we drug tested all employees.

    I said then, and stick by it now; I'd rather walk under the boom of Joe Crane Operator, who occasionally smokes a joint on the weekend, than that of Bill Crane Operator, who drank until closing, barely made it to work this morning and is still half-looped.

    Yet who gets fired when the test results come in? Why, Joe, of course. He's an obvious threat to society.:(
  10. Galactus

    Galactus Monkey+++ Founding Member

  11. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Spelling wizard, take note --

    Yeah we're busting chops tonight, about like another case. We luv ya ennyhoo. [beer]
  12. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    They wouldn't give us anything nearly that flashy!

    Just the old [tf].

  13. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    me too Tracy.

    Where your DH?
  14. CRC

    CRC Survivor of Tidal Waves | RIP 7-24-2015 Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    All true..and I witnessed it first hand...I guess since this does hit so close to home..I can't form an unbiased opinion...

    melbo? He already went thru alcohol....and then cocaine....then Oxycontin....then moved on to Crystal Meth...
    The Meth was the only drug that had him stealing from everyone he came in contact with..........the only one.

    I have seen the devastation...from drugs. On the user..the families...the children of addicts...and the friends ....
    An alcoholic may steal from you...but he/she is going to invite you along for the ride , with them...
    and they usually own up to it somewhere along the way....again..MY experience , only..

    But addicts are different....

    and I also agree with ghrit about certain drugs and the maturity level..

    I can't see anyone smoking pot, going out and stealing everything they can get their hands on...

    And yes, melbo...I'd rather be behind someone stoned than someone drunk anyday....although I would rather not be on the road with anyone chemically altered...

    I don't know..

    All I know is he wiped out my savings acct from stealing my debit card...and stole my credit cards..and maxxed them out and went over the limit....and did TWO MONTHS in a county jail...and they wonder why credit card fraud is rampant??

    I guess there can't be a blanket punishment as the crimes seem to accelerate with different drug use..

    I know it's a good thing the law found him before I did....

    Today? I have learned to say No..and mean it...and to not be so trusting with family members....or anyone for that matter...and that angers me too! It's like they not only stole my money...but some of the joy of life, that makes me "me".....and that pisses me off even more , if that is possible....

    I still need to think about this one...Like I said..perhaps I am too close to this one..
  15. CRC

    CRC Survivor of Tidal Waves | RIP 7-24-2015 Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

    I just remembered an old thing from some comedian....He was talking about the "impact" of the whole "Just Say No" campaign the first lady started...

    Said she had a new one , for homeless people....

    "Just Get a House"......

    Putting in perspective how little impact the Just Say No campaign really had on society..

    People are going to use drugs...people are going to abuse drugs....there IS a difference...

    Be it alcohol...prescription drugs...or illegal ones....

    It is as old as the Bible...

    Proverbs...best description of alcoholism I ever read....

    29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? (8675) who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. 33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. 34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. 35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

    Even though it was beating them to death? They go after it again...

    This problem is as old as time.....
  16. Quigley_Sharps

    Quigley_Sharps The Badministrator Administrator Founding Member

    Waste of human
  17. Tracy

    Tracy Insatiably Curious Moderator Founding Member

    Working 6 days a week.
  18. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    Drugs are a problem, but the so-called "War on Drugs" is a much greater problem. Anything that creates a black-market ecconomy in lower income areas has the impact of making my personal possessions a chip on the table in a game that I choose not to play. :evil:
  19. Galactus

    Galactus Monkey+++ Founding Member

  20. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    We all choose our own poison. I think its the crime that results from drug addiction that deserves punishment, not the addiction itself. Suppose, for example, Bill Gates were addicted to some substance but he could afford to finance the addiction. Most people would hope for treatment of his addiction, not being lined up in the street and shot. Life is never black and white Galactus, even if it would be easier to tell the good guys from the bad guys if it were.
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