What straw will break the Camel's Back?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by gillman7, Dec 17, 2006.


  1. gillman7

    gillman7 Monkey+++

    OK, I just read the story of the Domestic Terrorists pamphlet, and it brings up the age old question. What event would it take for the people that talk about freedom, survival, constitutionality, state militias, etc to say that's enough, no more?

    When this country was founded it was through extreme bravery against a tyrant that was dictating and taxing their lifestyles, imprisoning our people without justification. I am glad it is so much different today.....

    Here are some of my concerns:
    >Electronic monitoring, used to foil terrorists? but also used against our own people. Everything that we allow them to use "for our own safety" can and will be used against us.

    >When Waco happened, we sent in our troops against our own people and no one really rallied. I realize that there was the child endangerment charges that needed to be addressed, and I completely agree that it should have been investigated, but not by the ATF and with tanks.

    >I am not a bigoted person by nature, and have many friends of different races and faiths, but as to profiling, if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I am thinking it could be a duck. If they proved that middle aged white guys with gray beards were responsible for terrorist attacks, then I would expect to be glove searched until I decided to shave or be thankful that I am being kept safe from other middle aged white guys with a gray beard.

    >Why are the citizens of this country able to be arrested and charged, forced to go to court, spend money for a lawyer to defend themselves, be found innocent, and then not be able to sue the authority that arrested them for damages? I seem to think it would stop a lot of the BS that LEO are pulling.

    You know, the media is complaining about the guerilla tactics the Iraqi are using in Baghdad, but if you were fighting for your homeland, would you not do the same? I seem to remember reading a certain army that wore red uniforms with big white X's on them complaing that their enemy did not fight in the normal rules of engagement, but rather fought like savages, running and hiding, shooting officers at every opportunity, creating confusion in the ranks. Is that not what would need to be done to win a confrontation against a superior armed foe?


    I could go on, but I think you understand my feelings. But, here is my question, what will it take to make the disgruntled populace draw the line in the sand? I understand the hesitation to post anything specific, and I am not asking for that, just general warning signs. Even in writing this, I am hesitant to send it out on such a public domain, so if you do not hear from me in 72 hours, the alphabet men must have found me.
    [flag]
     
  2. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    The issue is not what broke the poor camel's back but rather, how we plan to protect future camels from abuse. PETA has directly been consulted in this matter and hence forth, beasts of burdon are no longer necessary. Big brother will carry the load and protect us from ourselves; who needs camels?
    I will admit that several thousand misguided individuals uselessly sacrificed their lives to establish a working republic but in all fairness, they had no idea that we would one day find it necessary to have a one world government. They odviously never for-saw the need to circumvent natural selection and political correctness just wasn't as needed when the population was only a few million. With enough police to controll the population, the need for protecting one's self is archaic and the sacrifice of a few small liberties pales in comparison to the greater good of homeland security. Happy Seasonal Holidays to all and may the force be with you (instead of after you).[flag]
     
  3. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Don't move from your location...Agents will be along shortly...If you/we as citizens don't like something about our government we have procedures for redress of grievances ( or so I was taught).

    To do or advocate otherwise is criminal. Hopefully you or I personally won't be in a position with our own heads in the public noose to be the trip wire that generates revolutionary resolve among the masses to turn this ship of state around. Realize by that time, folks around here will probably be well versed in the "tap code"l (like the p.o.w. pilots) used in the Hanoi hilton. I believe there probably is some truth behind civilian detention(er- ah," resettlement" ) camps (Fema camps); at the very least, the federal prision system is still robust. reading the "citizen's watch pamphlet" ,who knows what could land you infront of a military judge,next week....

    You gotta wonder , underfinal analysis. what good would locking down america do for the(PTB) monied corporations,? Who's gonna worry about buying all that chinese crap at walmart or amaking payments on a new suburban when you are under surveillance or martial law and looking over your shoulder all day.?
    S'pose they can legislate consumerism..( Aayn Rands "Atlas Shrugged")
    Lets just all watch "roller-ball" and be good consumers, then report to the soylent corp. service offices...after we are less than productive.

    Gun law (and enforcement) has become incereasingly draconian,almost daily, Nobody outside gun owners seems to care...even some of them don't care.
    The legal system is run by the lawyers and their busom buddies the insurance business....

    politics is a big money stage production, whatever party you vote for the government still wins. I read Both Bill Clinton and Hw bush were members of the CFR; running against each other..
    The constitution and biil of rights provided a basis for assuaging the public and assurring us we still retained ultimate power and control...

    If/When you' re designated a "noncombatant"(* sorry, "enemy combattant") it doesn't seem to apply to you anymore.

    The founding fathers pledged each other their lives , fortunes and honor. They were involved in criminal acts of rebellion against the king. They were n't kidding themselves shooting popcans out back with their sks's. They were involved up to their eye teeth in a deadly( treasonous) game.

    Play the tinfoil hat game yourself; If I was a military leader tasked with the responsibility to institute martial law in my area, I wouldhave to exploit the hesitation and confusion of citizens who don't really want to fight anybody, can't/don't want to really believe the surreal is happening here. Simoultaneous rounding up ( detainment) of likely"trouble makers. Separating them from their weapons and groups before any organized response is rallied."Prepared " folks of the paranoid survivalist community will probably rate detainment or at least bear closer scrutiny.Think you'll be duking it out with your favorite yugo carbine and 1k rounds in the basement? More than likely you'll be trying to get a non-existant lawyer to file a non-forthcoming appeal,and fishing from cell to cell within the cell block with the torn out waistband of your prison issue BVD's;[flag].

    [flag]Who knows? Saw a youtube video of Texans railing vehemently against the texas nafta corridor ( and the federal emminent domain seizures sure to be necessary for a project that size.) Maybe that's your answer. It twill take a very obvious overt act of treason or oppressive force by this government.for most folks to even get off the couch. Even then it depends what rollerball team is on.
     
  4. Gallowglass

    Gallowglass Winter is coming

    Forgive me for being negative, but I don't think there could be any cause that would make America rally around anything any more. Even 9/11 only got people to quit complaining for a couple of weeks. Most Americans are too busy being victims to be heroes.

    The truth is that the United States of America that saved the world during WWII, the USA that our parents and grandparents loved, is dead and gone: Liberalism held her down while multiculturalism raped her to death. There aren't enough people left who care to make any difference. They would be lynched in the popular media if they dared to try.

    There is no straw to break the camel's back, because there is no camel.

    It is too late to get mad about it; clean your guns and plant your garden. Things will be better some day, but they will get worse first.
     
  5. Blackjack

    Blackjack Monkey+++

    Gallowglass, I think you're probably right, the camel is dead and buried, although I would disagree on what killed it. In my view corporatism and corruption among both lib/conserv & repub/dem is at the root, all the way back to the 14th amendment allowing corporations to be legally considered "persons". But it does no good to really argue about what killed it, does it, it's still dead, and people are too comfortable in their relative wealth to stand up and fight.

    I try to be optimistic at times, but my optimism is continually beaten into submission every time it raises it's head.
     
  6. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Fire's dead but there are still sparks left ( there's quite afew smoldering here).Read some of the comments and replies on all these controversial you tube videos...At least a few out there are aware of the trickling away of the ideals that were the USA...As far as 911; They gave us an enemy wrapped up with a bow..
    We all went back to the tv in the tavern having done our patriotic job: shouting, "USA USA bomb them Ayrabs.." Janet showed us her yaboe
    And we were all happy again.
    While "they" shipped the debris out post haste ( Gotta rebuild on that spot dontcha' know)...
     
  7. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

  8. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    I posted this rant a while back and decided it was relevent here; my apologies for dragging it back again.
    It is unfortunate that our generation has been brain-washed into believing our country is a democracy. This was no accident, but rather a deliberate ploy on the part of power-hungry central government to increase their hold and control over a mindless population. You and I both are equally responsible for allowing this to happen.
    We have been brain-washed into believing that our rights are constitutionally guaranteed by the government; that’s the slight of hand that made our liberties disappear! We have been led to believe that in this great democracy, our constitution gives us these rights. That is just a big lie.
    Symantics alone, allowed this lie to be told so many times, that we came to believe it was the truth. It is a simple lie, as the best lies always are. We let someone call it the Constitution OF the United States, implying that this was a guarentee given to us by our benevolent government. It is not the Constitution OF the United States; it is the Constitution FOR the United States. It is a document that states quite emphatically, that our rights are held “Self-evident”. These rights are ours; period. We gave this document to the government and told them they could exist only under OUR control. The constitution is nothing but a rule book to remind Government that they belong to the people and not the other way around.
    We were lied to and lured into a trap and now we are prisoners. It began with a temporary voluntary tax on our income to pay the bills for the first war to end all wars. The war didn’t quite end all wars but the impact on our economy caused the great depression. Government dangled a carrot at the hungry people and all we had to do was play by their rules; not such a big deal. Except that we forgot that the government belongs to us, the people, and as such, they are supposed to follow our rules, not the other way around.
    The TVA gave thousands of jobs to people and provided a power grid that benefited millions and to get it, all we had to do was pay higher taxes and observe a few more government rules. Since there were a few that didn’t want to fall into that trap, our government decided that the voluntary temporary tax should be enforced for everyone and just put the disdents in jail. What’s a few people’s liberty; they should have just paid their taxes like everyone else.
    We wanted better highways, so our benevolent government gave us the interstate system, millions of jobs, billions of dollars back into our pockets and higher taxes and more rules; remember the hated 55 mph speed limit? Somewhere in that time, the right to drive an automobile, motorcycle, or any other vehicle became a “PRIVLIDGE”.
    We wanted better schools with subsidized lunches and all we had to do was obey a few more rules. Who needs prayer anyway? We put a few frilly curtains inside our prison and pretty soon, it is just like home.
    We are now frightened of our government. Not frightened? You are a liar, sir! Take for example, your beloved 2nd amendment. We told our government that they could never infringe on our right to keep and bear arms, just in case we had to forcefully remove them from office. They said they would only infringe a little bit and told us we couldn’t own firearms that were equal to the type they needed to enforce us (NFA weapons). OK, so we can pay a tax and get their approval to buy one of the few machineguns that are transferable, it isn’t really an infringement to not allow any more to be made or imported except for the purpose of arming our keepers. We know how to make them, but we are frightened of loosing our “right to keep and bear arms” if we decide to be civilly disobedient. The assault weapons ban…ha ha…Once more, instead of making them pry our guns from our cold dead hands, we just created that stupid pre-ban-post-ban market. People were arrested and lost their 2nd amendment rights and all their other rights for just having a post-ban weapon with evil pre-ban features. You know this happened. The federal war on crime (sounds kind of warm and fuzzy, doesn’t it?) declares a gun-free zone to lessen crime, all us law-abiding citizens turn in our weapons. We grumble, but we do it or face loosing our liberty. When they declared an amnesty, we registered our war trophies. When they declare an amnesty, we will register our assault weapons. When they declare an amnesty, we will register our hunting rifles. We don’t want to be criminals. Do we? We are frightened of our government. They have a standing army to enforce us, not the regular military, although the regular military was used against a church in Waco, Texas. The hundreds of thousands of Federal law enforcement personnel, along with the State and local LEOs that have Federal guidelines that they must comply with or loose their budgitary allowances. Call them peace keepers, LEOs, Officers, crime-fighters, what ever you want. They are armed to the teeth with military weapons, training, and tactics and if they so much as suspect that you have in your procession, a weapon of the type that they are carrying or the means of producing one, that they did not give you permission to have, then you may be shot from helicopters, tanks, planes, or boats while being watched in real time by the rest of the population on CNN as an example of what happens if you believe in the 2nd amendment. Shame on us. Shame.
    Our founding fathers formed this country as a Republic, not a democracy. It is time to stand up to the government and "Just say NO!" catchy little slogan, ain't it?
     
  9. monkeyman

    monkeyman Monkey+++ Moderator Emeritus Founding Member

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