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What to do when you have to leave your group

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dragonfly, Feb 3, 2009.

  1. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Recent events had made it more than apparent that it's time for me and mine, to pick up our marbles and leave the game....so to speak!

    I tried, really I did, and I'm still concerned about the rest of my smaller group, being able to go it alone....
    But, the group we'd joined up with, began with some really grandiose notions and visions, of what WE could do as a larger group.
    Unfortunately, it turned into no more than, shall we say "misleading" and a LOT of misinformation?

    Nah, JUST tell it like it is: Lies, pure and unadulterated ones too!
    Sad, all of it...Really.

    I started to ask questions, and was continually put off, then I went from the top of the pack to the middle, and found when one apple is rotten it dosen't take long for the whole barrel to follow.....
    The more I pushed the quieter they got.....

    1 member actually stood up and asked the same question, and was promptly told to not ask....
    He was not a happy camper, as I get the idea he was one of the original founders of their group, that has now been taken over by 2 late comers to the group.
    1, because he holds "ownership" to a piece of land...or does he?
    No one really knows......
    There's no record of it, and I having been a private investigator, knew just who to call to check on it!
    No taxes paid in any of their names either!
    I won't be surprised if he has no ownership at all, as it would fit in place with the rest of the puzzle's pieces!
    Pure fantasy!

    During a recent meeting, my son and my neighbor were so incensed by one person in particular, they wanted to take this person outside and teach him some manners....(not a good sign!) ( down, sit ,heel, stay! )

    I held back, and that was a couple weeks back...I continued to hold out some hope, and even tried to approach them independently away from any other influences, and found they all seem brainwashed..."ask so and so..." Over and over....and over.....and...You see where this is going!

    (No, I refuse to drink the Kool-Aid, thank you, but NO thanks!)

    I was aksed to give a list, an inventory to one of the members that seems to have a problem, not so much with spelling, but with other things like :
    Items needed:
    1 per person ( say what?....1 of who?)
    or the best one:
    "Cans of tarps".....( I wonder what this guy is smoking!) I swear, it's right there on the list...
    Maybe it was supposed to read "tanned carps"?
    Maybe Cart pans?
    I have no idea, but it was aberrant at best, and disconcering at the least, especially when the list suggested "400 small flashlights....."!
    and then "400 toothbrushes....."!
    This was not the worst of the scenario mind you, this was just in the past couple of days..
    So, I asked for some type of clarification of some of the medicinal supplies and other things from the list...(eg: "70", "48", "12", and "10".....I just don't get it!)
    So far, NO REPLY!
    And so, it will just have to be....I don't speak in numerology!
    Now, I'm NO rocket scientist, but I know when someone is BS'ing me...[BSf]
    Trouble is, they just signed up another 6 people....So I don't feel like such a sucker...
    But then again....
    Now, we are off looking for a nice little piece of dirt someplace, where we could set up an outhouse, and hopefully, a tent or two if need be!

    Bill & co.
  2. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    Knowing when to throw in your cards and get out of the game is a skill in itself. Sorry about the turn of events. "All pigs are equal but some are more equal than others."

    Good luck as you re-establishing your own family group.
  3. eeyore

    eeyore Monkey++

    I'm not a big fan of splitting a group, under any circumstances. But i would talk to the same guy that asked the same questions as you and your neighbor and your son, should be a good basis for a group. Get the land and start your own.

    Hard to do things on your own.

    I would go just a little farther then tents. I would start with trailers and then add porches ans enclose them and so on. Water tanks and latrines, go on from there.

    Just remember as you bring in new people, what you went through and learn from your your mis-start. Hopefully you can get back some of your money.
  4. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    They get any money from you ??
    I'm reminded of Steve Martin in"the jerk"" That's all I need ;I need this chair and this ashtray, oh and I need this too".
    `cans tarp?= "canvas tarp"?
    I asked those questions in the military I was "shelter manager at our avionics maint squadron building,we took the checklists and I started to pursue getting and nailing down water storage options really multiplying the gals x squadron members to be holed up there for at least two weeks and: "There's no money for water barrels etc." I realized it was lip service the real "survivors" on a sac base were going to be the members of the ARB convoy .( "alternate reconstruction base" team)We'd flush the bombers they'd pack a convoy of tools, spares, fuel trucks and reloads for the bombers and head out to an "alternate recovery" point because they figured the runways and wsa on the sac base would be a big smoking hole to return to.

    gotta ask the hard questions and get answers.
  5. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    'Tis a shame really....
    But then again, it's better to find out these things now!
    We just contacted a realtor that has several 2 acre + plots of land, for as little as $1,200 down and $152.00 a month!
    Were cooking now!
    The 1 member that spoke up and was basically ignored, has again made private contact with us re: moving of his conex box/cargo conatiner to the land...
    We are now in negotiations with some self employed truckers, that have flat beds and/or low boy's, to transport and deliver for us from Los Angeles area to northern Arizona. I spoke with all 6 in my group, and they are set to go right now, no more waiting on a group of people that have no sense of timing or direction it seems.
    I can forsee that the mainstay of their group, may want to make a transition to a more active and participatory group, such as we now have....
    Unfortunately, I simply cannot see 12-18 people occupying an area of only 2 to 2 1/4 acres.
    Too little and far too late in the game, to begin over and to re-write the rules of the game itself.
    When I'd made a simple suggestion that first and foremost, we ALL needed a waste disposal system ASAP, even after I offered to pay 75% of the cost of the septic system ...
    It was a "hush, don't speak of funding, money is too tight right now".
    Like it was going to get any better in the furture?
    I recently inquired about 'catchement systems' for water in the desert, and was told quite bluntly, "it has already been documented". (Non-disclosure?)
    Also the "orientation" of conex boxes to maximize their uses...
    Again, "It has already been documented".....
    The rest of the group either has taken the same approach to survival, or, in fact, may have been told the same, and have no idea that they are relying on 2 people of which honesty is doubtful at best.
    There seems to be an air of indifference, to real and NOT imaginary problems, when dealing with a group of that size and scope.
    Water is a necessity.
    I was told they "had" a water trailer, that could handle 800 gallons of water...
    Hmmmm..... not being a whiz bang at math, I decided to check it out..
    @ 8.33 lbs per gallon, not counting weight of tanks or barrels, that is easily rated at 6,600 lbs +. Over 3 tons.
    Now their trailer turned out to be a 'home depot' fold-up type, that is rated for 600-800 lbs, and NOT FOR HIGHWAY USE!
    That was disconcerting!
    So, based solely on TRUST, there are a LOT of people I am afraid are in for one rude awakening!
    No maps, nor plot numbers, no BLM maps or geo mapping...just "trust me I have already done it all with my GPS unit in grids..."(?)
    Trust is earned, and NEVER given freely!
    Now you see why that is!
    We already have our own 2 trailers, and 4 vehicles.
    We have the ability right now to house 10 people...not necessarliy in grand comfort, but, this is survival!
  6. Mule

    Mule Monkey++

    My brother was almost dupped the same way with a "group". Some of the same types of problems but he was smart enough to bounce it off of myself and several others prior to putting goods in the group. I know people like to be in "support groups" but I figure that your best bet of not being screwed in this type of hood winking is for you to go it alone, prep with no support, and then when the SHTF, you can figure out whom was committed and then you can "form a group" for better survival.

    I never liked "group work" when I was in school of now. One or two workers in the group and the rest are free loaders for grades or goodies. Glad to see you got out now with some preps.

  7. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    Luckily, we did NOT give them any funding, with the exception of purchasing a set of 3 radios they wanted everyone to have....($225.00)
    So, I can ask to get the funds back from them, as I am sure they won't want me or mine on their frequencies.

    We tried to offer money to help set up the property and even to buy group items, like stoves, water heaters, etc....I suppose that in hindsight, I'm glad we got off as cheaply as we did!
    I do feel for those that are just now coming into that group, they have NO idea of what they are getting themselves into...

    It appeared in the past couple of months there was some sort of power play by some, against the will of the majority...It appears it's actually working, as I said before, 1 person supposedly owns/has some property, and that's their bargaining chip.

    They are now at the mercy off that individuals wishes.
    We chose NOT to be a part of such a control.
    It looks more like a monarchy or maybe even a dictatorial system, than a group!
    Since my last post, I have already rec'd one answer to an ad, for a truck driver to move those cargo containers from Long Beach!
    Things are continuing to move right along, and now with no further "permissions" needed, we can proceed even more quickly!

    There is one thing about being a member of a group: you have to be willing to sacrifice certain things...and to be ameniable with others....
    Without that there is no group, just individuals seeking to control others...

    Lately I have seen "groups" recruiting from all over the U.S., but there is something NOT quite right...They want you to take what the call the "Kiersey" personality evaluation/test, to determine IF you are the right type to join in with them.

    That sounds a tad bit scary!
    I would avoid those people at any cost!
    I looked into the "scam" and found that anyone, can become a "tester", and be certified for only $65.00!
    "Yes, FRIENDS, you too can Become a Professional Psychologist today"!
    Sounds funky dosen't it?
    Maybe they also offer Bachelor's and Masters degrees for only $129.95, today only?
    "...and if you act right now, we'll throw in a Medical Certificate for ONLY the additional price of shipping and handling"!
    I can see where that's heading!
  8. SLugomist

    SLugomist Monkey++

    See that's the problem with groups of humans. One or a few always think there way is the best way and then want to impose their view on the others. and then you're right back where you started.
  9. QuietOne

    QuietOne Monkey++

    A few suggestions:
    Everyone should have a useful specialty (doctor, plumber, electrician, assassin :D ) and can teach the others.
    Everyone should be willing to work. Those who don't, don't stay.
    Keep the group small.
    General organization and decision-making laid out and agreed to in advance (suggest democracy in planning, strict chain of command in emergencies).
    Everyone understands security (which means keep your mouth shut).
    Further ideas?
  10. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Mostly agree. If you do a search on "tribe" on this site, there are other threads that might add to your thinking. I think most of that was over a year ago. [coffee2]
  11. Tango3

    Tango3 Aimless wanderer

    Sounds like optimum ideas:
    what if the doctor loves his wife, and she is mostly kept and useless; I think you have stated ideal situations.
    I agree she should shoulder her share.
    Read Rawles "patriots" Rawles makes the case for a firm chain of command. The group in it ( the book) has a rather formal chain of command which works ( again in the book)
    Seems the group dynamics described in the o.p. above had members changing hierarchy based on charisma or popularity, in aloose "dog eat dog" group the alphas will push the others around...
  12. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    People suck.

    If you, as an individual, and with family (or with no family) cannot function alone, then perhaps the focus should be on improving self sufficiency. If *you* are the type that likes being around other people (who suck), then maybe try building a network. Each participant remains on their own, but communications are established, routes of support and emergency procedures planned out in preparation. As far as I am concerned, this is the only viable option over group think.

    Again...people suck.
  13. QuietOne

    QuietOne Monkey++

    Brokor hit problem #1 with all groups. Who are you going to trust when TSHTF? Trust must be earned.

    Problem #2 as I see it; the SHTF, you all gather at your retreat, hunker down, then after a week or a month... what? Do you start a farm? A local business? Do you know your neighbors? Having a permanent retreat means you live there the rest of your life.

    Most social breakdowns in history don't end up with Mad Max. Either society gets back on its feet (Argentina) or a dictator imposes order (Wiemar Republic). In either case a retreat isn't a good, long term solution unless you're set up to live there for good.
  14. ozarkgoatman

    ozarkgoatman Resident goat herder

    Even if peak oil, the bird flu, and the ice age all hit at once. People will start rebuilding a "normal" life after the dust settles. As normal as can be done under the conditions at hand at least. So you will want to be able to produce something that others will want to trade/sell. If you haven't ever farmed and start under those conditions, all I can say is good luck. [booze]

    We have tried to find others in the area that are of like mind to build relationships with people we could trust latter. To date theres none to be found, most just want to ride on someone elses back. So it's just me and my family when things get tough. [dunno]

  15. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member

    I like to think that some use technology such as the internet to meet others and to help form cohesive or even collective understanding to the point of recognizing the importance of combined effort and perpetual existence in harmony with nature. Often times, as OGM made apparent, typical neighbors do not offer the type of support and reasoned friendship that can eventually lead to successful groupings of people.

    The fact remains that most people still belong to the corporate and political mindset which have framed their thought process their entire lives. It takes dedication to a higher set of principles and effort toward understanding the importance of living with real purpose in order to accomplish the beginnings of a beneficial framework and life style we can all be proud of. Mixed with the everyday turmoil of having to live in such a society, and with the economy steadily headed down even further into uncertain times, those very same people, who before were nothing more than a nuisance will undoubtedly become a terrible burden...and could quite possibly be a physical threat to our survival. Even so, the counter balance to this argument is, that some may also be more determined to live responsibly and sensibly, and could possibly become allies in defense of an almost forgotten way of life. We shall see just how many will succumb to the pressures of financial woes in a negative fashion, and even though the odds are not in our favor, I remain optimistic enough to identify with the better side of our own nature, and will leave the destructive nature of the majority to their own uncertain future.

    It would be nice to have strong communities, though. I can't blame anybody for trying.
  16. dragonfly

    dragonfly Monkey+++

    One problem...(besides that old TRUST issue!) Even after several months, we know little about each other, their skills, or capabilities...
    As far as I know right now, I am the only veteran in the group.
    The ages run the gamut from 19 to 57....
    Now, The people in my own little set of nuts, have some skills, but not many and they need a lot of training and practice too. (young)
    Me, I'm just too hardnosed and harsh....My 7 kids informed me a long time ago of that fact! I have little patience and no time for excuses....(I'm far worse than any Drill Instructor I ever knew! Just ask my ex's!!!)
    I'm the OLD MAN of the entire group.....and I see a lot of organization missing....
    In my group I bark, and they do...just how it is, but they love my cooking, and the stuff I teach them!
    So, no complaints, no tears, very few hurt feelings...
    I'm hard and I tell them I know it, but there's a reason....I'm not trying to make them smile, nor am I trying to form any bonds or even become their friend, I'm simply trying to teach them how to stay alive.
    They get it.
    Make's us lucky that way!
    As for the others, I see no cohesion, no GROUP, just a lot of lost people, looking for something/someone to get them right and on track.
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