What would you add to survive through this scenario ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by arleigh, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    As in the movie The Edge, or The Grey, the small blue grey twin engine plane you are sole surviving passenger in goes down in the middle of snow covered heavily wooded mountains mid November .
    Though there was no fire the rest of the passengers are dead due to injuries the plane having passed through trees before hitting the ground .
    Though shaken up you are not injured that you know of though the trauma of the event has you stunned .
    My first instinct is to check the victims for life and if none found check the fuel tanks for leakage
    and shut off fuel lines to prevent loss in places I cannot see .
    Isolate the battery to insure no potential shorts can occur,,and see that the ELT if any, is functional. isolate power to the radio and attempt to make communications .
    Search for the pilots maps and his flight plan if any, to ascertain location for rescue teams to start once communications are established, if any.
    If the ELT is working but weather is forbidding it must be assumed that an extended stay is inevitable .
    If it is territory that is common to predators , the smell of blood of the dead victims in the air will attract their interest . Burying them in snow will not mask the sent . plastic bags work best but it is unlikely you have any . Though bear hibernate there are exception, and wolves don't hibernate .
    Knowing the plane needs to be seen from the sky ,once the snow has stopped the up side surface needs to be cleared and made obvious .
    Though I have more , this is where you can add your recommendations to this scenario .
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  2. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    Stay with the plane as long as possible, it will provide shelter for quite a while, the fuel can be used for starting fires in soaking wet wood, and can also be used for signaling! There are other uses, aluminum can be used to make a pot to melt snow, insulation can be used to increase the warmth of your clothing, and the dead are dead, so remove them and stack them up down slope or down wind of the plane! I would go further and use the dead to try and trap a predator, you gotta eat, so have at it. A piece of aluminum can be made into a spear, or an axe or other stabbing, slashing, bludgening tool to aid in the kill! As long as the risk of staying with the plane is low, I would Stay! Don' forget to undress the dead and use any thing you find to your benefit, warm dry clothes for example, or a pocket knife becasue you didnt bring one!
    3cyl, Seepalaces, Gator 45/70 and 6 others like this.
  3. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Seat cushions are padded, usually with foam that can be used as insulation. Seat belt are nylon webbing and relatively strong and will melt together. Their melted component could be utilized by applying the melted nylon to secure items to a small tree to form snare, attach a spear head to a pole, or any application requiring high strength adhesive. I would not waste energy clearing the snow from the plane as that would become a daily event. Instead, I would use tree boughs to lay out a HELP signal for searching aircraft. Still work but I'm not moving snow. Wiring in the plane could be used for snares. I would dig a snow cave under one of the wings.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  4. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Very good thoughts ,
    I would say that if I had to leave the plane to hunt , leave a note secured to the plane so a search party might know where to look for me.
    For signal fires I was thinking of both using green wood and or the tires ,if I can safely remove them from the plane.
    Seems that a constant stream of smoke would give searchers something more concrete to fallow, unless the winds are too blustery .
    In my pack I keep gear to sustain me for a while and keep a stainless cup for cooking or purifying water as the need arises .
    Bush pilots usually maintain some survival gear ,of course it's limited for bulk and weight purposes .
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    The Fuel Tanks will be GONE if the Aircraft landed thru TREES, as the Fuel is stored in the "wings" and they will have been ripped OFF, in the crash.... In most Bush Planes the Battery is in the Tail, just behind the Cargo Compartment, so YES, Disconnect that, is the First thing to save the Power.... The ELT has it's own Power (Battery) and is also located in the Tail. Check it for the blinking Red LED, that shows it is activated, and if it is NOT Blinking remove it from the Tail and activate it, and if you decide to leave the Crash Site, take it with you.... I would have my Browning HIPower, Kukuri, and Emergency Kit, in my Travel Pack, that ALWAYS goes with me, when flying around the in Bush... Also I have Comms in that Travel Pack, consisting of my Kenwood TH-D72a 5 Watt Vhf/Uhf FM Radio, with builtin GPS, as well as my iPhone 5s that also has Cellular 2G,3g, 4G, and LTE as well as GPS, and Maps of the area I am traveling In... If it was a Commercial Flight, 1the Plane will be looked for in Short Order, when if is more than 1 hour overdue... So building a Very Smokey Signal Fire a short distance from the Crash Site, is HIGH on the list of things to do... Once I figure out exactly where I am, and what is around me, I can think about heading either Higher, or Lower, depending if there are Repeaters, and or Remote Base Public Safety Stations, are on near by Mountain Tops... If so going higher makes a lot of sense, as the range of my Radio gets better the higher I go, getting out of any Valley... A nice Remote UCSG Radio Site could be worked at 60 miles, with a 5 Watt Radio, with a Line of Sight Path....My EK was some Energy Bars, a Solid Fuel Stove and a collapsed Water Container, should I decide to travel. Once I get situated, and understand the terrain, then I can think about the next steps, which maybe nothing more that, sitting and waiting for the CAP Flight and the USCG Chopper doing a Grid Search....
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  6. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    • First take @BTPost survival kit... He won't mind...
    • Make sure you are warm if you feel shocky and drink any available water...
    • Check all wallets for ID's and items that the family might want... these can be cached for future recovery.
    • Tires can be used for signal fires
    • Check for any tubing in the engine compartment, it can be used to help start fire by isolating and forcing air in a specific area...
    • Check for an emergency kit, pilot probably has one and a survival kit or crash axe, a pioneering kit may also be available especially if it is a bush plane
    • remove the whiskey jack compass so you have a compass to navigate with (4 screws)
    • remove any seat cushions to provide insulation between you and the ground...
    • Check for alternative light sources i.e. lights/strobes that are in good shape.
    • you can use oil and the globe off a landing light and a bit of cloth to make a lamp
    • If it is a bush plane check the tool kit and see of you can remove a ski for use as a sled or a piece of aluminum that can be pulled if you have to walk out...
    • Pull any mirrors for signally devices if no mirrors the reflective back of a landing light will work as well
    There's more but this should be the minimum when you add those items above....
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  7. Tevin

    Tevin Monkey+++

    This question is hard to answer because it requires one to assume too much.

    It assumes the survivor is knowledgeable about aircraft in general (and the crashed aircraft in particular) that they would know where the fuel shutoff valves are and that they are accessible. It also assumes the tanks themselves are not compromised, in which case shutting off the valve won't help even if you do know what you are doing.

    Likewise, it assumes one knows where the battery and the ELT are, they are not damaged an/or inaccessible, and and the requisite tools needed to remove/disconnect them are available.

    After checking the victims, I would first start a fire for warmth and signaling. You can't do anything else if you are freezing to death.

    I would not screw around looking for metal tubing or mirrors or fuss over minutiae. Keep in mind there is a very high likelihood that any survival items (radios, guns, stoves, etc) you may have thoughtfully brought along will be damaged and/or scattered over a very large area. At that point you have to make a risk vs. benefit decision: For example, how much time and energy do you want to spend tramping around the forest looking for a radio or cellphone that might not even be working when/if you find it? The risk vs. benefit gap is even larger if it is dark and/or bad weather.

    As for dead bodies attracting predators...I would get myself as far from those bodes as possible. Either remove them from the aircraft and drag them well away from the wreckage, or leave the bodies in the plane and find shelter somewhere else.

    Then and only then would I start picking through the wreckage for anything that might be useful.
    Seepalaces likes this.
  8. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I believe I would invest in a Garmin GPS/Emergency beacon locator or a device along that line.
    BT probably can comment on a reliable model
    Seepalaces likes this.
  9. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Thank you all for your input, written here for those that may fallow.
    Of times it is the little things one has read that help them through a relevant situation.
    It may seem silly to have so many things to do , never the less being kept busy with improving ones situation both improves one's moral and sense of purpose .Alternately it makes one paus to consider if they are actually prepared for such an event .
    I've done S&R in places a car has gone off the road down a canyon and people starved to death because they lost hope, afraid to do any thing .
    Having bits and pieces of information of times people draw from ,even if it's not perfect, it is a sliver of hope .
  10. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    Lots of outfits make PLBs (Personal Locator Beacons) these days, and they ALL have to be certified by the Country of Origin to comply with the ITU Standard for PLBs... and then Registered with the ITU thru the Country of Residency, which includes Contact Information for the Owner of Record... This allws the International SAR Folks to know who they. are looking for, and get more Information from the Emergency Contact Folks about where you might be and what you might be doing... They then can get the Country where the Beacon is Active to launch a SAR Mission ASAP...
  11. duane

    duane Monkey+++

    Many years ago, close to 60 years now, I knew a former USAF pilot who had a very messed up face and was blind. He had been flying in a trainer out of Davis Monthan AFB and flew into the wrong canyon and ran into a dead end and ran out of ideas and altitude at about the same time and crashed. Two people in aircraft, one had harness properly fastened and tight, bad bruises, but walked out for help and was back on duty in a week, other didn't think chest restraints on harness was necessary and found it confining, 1950's setup was nothing like the modern USAF setup, but probably similar to most bush planes today, head went into the panel and the rest is history. Point is being properly prepared, right restraints, in use, proper position, etc, may give you a chance to use the survival equipment available. We all probably remember the long search in Alaska for the congressman who went down in a light plane and they found the rescue beacon, if I remember right, at his house. Never did find anything of the plane as far as I know. I have no experience with the modern locators, but being satellite based, I have been told that size and number of passengers doesn't make any difference in locating the plane. Was told with one of the older ones, that if you left it on they had 3 choices, rescue you, wait until the batteries ran out, or destroy the aircraft, otherwise it messed up the satellite system until the signal stopped. Once on the ground after the crash, it gets down to standard survival practices, location will determine what you do. If half way between Hawaii and Johnston Island, or interior Alaska in winter. deep jungle, desert, or mountain areas, you are in deep kimchee. In a bush plane, military aircraft, or private plane, you can at least have a chance for some survival equipment, hand held locator beacons, satellite phone, life raft, medical kit, food rations, water purification and storage, sleeping bag and some sort of shelter, perhaps snares, etc. On a commercial flight, you are pretty much out of luck, cushions, clothing, a little water, matches, and a lot of prayer are going to be all that is available after you go thru the security screening on boarding. USAF for the grunts had a for runner of the ISAM survival kit which I didn't like that well. In addition to what they now call the ISAM kit I always carried a good knife with a sharpening stone on the sheath, a poncho and poncho liner, wore a good pair of laced up boots, had a few heavy duty zip lock bags, a couple pounds of M&M's and nuts, spare clothes and socks, some soap, and if permitted, a weapon with extra ammo, a folded up square of super light tarp material and made sure to have a chute, can always use the cords and canopy material. As an enlisted man, didn't have much say, but we were always allowed a small bag and I sure did not waste it by filling it with junk.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  12. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    Actually I was a bit disappointed that Sherifs S&R did not provide these for their team .
    Seepalaces likes this.
  13. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Speaking from experience flying mountain contour searches are the pits and it's difficult to find anything in the snow unless there is a signaling device in use...

    Think about Steve Fossett Took over a year to find his bones despite a major search effort...
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  14. Bishop

    Bishop Monkey+++

    Take the shoe lace out of the dead shoes and a seat belt cut to about 4 inches long melt the ends heat a screw it bolt melt a hole make a David sling with the laces cut out the ham strings of the dead and start looking for sapling to make snow shoes use the ham strings for your bindings on the snow shoes if that's not enough use some intestine collect the clothes from the dead any shoes that may fit you drag the bodies away from the wreck lay out so they freeze then stand them up so they look alive out in the open or you could drain the blood and use it to write sos in the snow
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  15. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    In the event the plane is severely demolished, has no ELT or filed flight plan and there are no other means of communications and no one knows your missing no one is expecting you , basically your on your own .
    Is staying with the wreckage the best idea ?
    Seems that providing constant smoke at one's location is a must, but moving in an unknown area with out a map you could be going the wrong direction directly away from help. Having a compass works best if you know the area or have solid verification.
    Having your own ham radio is a big deal here. especially if you can get to a tall peak safely . Wasting battery on transmit time in a canyon is poor judgment .
    Knowing a full wave antenna is more effective in transmitting and receiving , it might be possible to salvage wire from the wreck and rig a long wire antenna, if you know the proper wire length for the frequency you using.
    Even if all your do is make radio interference in Morse code ,it is enough to be triangulated on, If you can keep it up long enough.
    If you have a watch you can do it on the hour, for 5 minuets or so , every hour and shut off the radio between, giving the battery a moments rest.
    Many Hams I know ,know how to T hunt, both for them selves and others ,for fun and for survival.

    Nefarious characters exist through out the world ,some hiding in the wilderness from the public eye and the law .
    In the days of CB radio decades before cell phones, predators would prey on people seeking help over the radio, especially in isolated areas.
    Like a bear smelling blood they are not going to necessarily be responding on the radio, but using the victims location being provided, for interference.
    Those coming by air are likely accountable people , however those on foot or boat I would maintain my more vigilant guard.
  16. fedorthedog

    fedorthedog Monkey+++

    Ok morbid here, search the bodies for useable items, take heavy clothing boots whatever is useable. Go thru any backpacks luggage for food or useable items. Ya I may not do that for the first 24 hours, but frozen dead people are hard to get clothing off of.
  17. arleigh

    arleigh Goophy monkey

    If you've been doing triage ASAP your going to know pretty much who's dead long before things get frozen.
    I've done recovery on downed planes that the victims showed no external signs of impact , died of fright you might say, frozen expressions on their faces, and mummified for several months before our discovery.
    I should think that If some one is prompt (in the moment after the crash)and begins CPR this kind of injury might be worth a try.
    If you could find a defibrillator that might give one a better chance .
    Seconds count and if there is no time to do any thing for the unfortunates, and the measures have been met to see that there is no chance of fire (fuel and hot engines, shorted circuts), making haste for the living is top priority.
    Another issue is dealing with leadership among those that do survive, if any .
    This is where communications skills come into play .
    I don't particularly care for a leadership role .
    Put me to making and fixing things and leave me alone, but at some point I know the there will be required some decision making.
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