What's This Round?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Minuteman, Jan 7, 2013.


  1. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    DSC03172.JPG DSC03174.JPG DSC03177.JPG DSC03172.JPG DSC03174.JPG DSC03177.JPG DSC03172.JPG DSC03174.JPG DSC03177.JPG You find lots of interesting things in the desert. Found this round and cannot identify it. Can anyone tell what this is? The diameter is .75". It is a solid projectile not a cased round.
     
  2. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    .75 works out pretty close to 20mm ....... so my guess it is a 20mm projectile
    .
    20 mm projectiles - Yahoo! Search Results
    .
    20mm-projectiles.
    Left to right, #3 and #4 look very similiar. Handle with care, may contain incendary or explosive.
    20mm-projectiles.
     
  3. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Dunno but you should ask Seacowboys to build a gun around it...
     
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  4. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    MM, this picture even more makes me believe, that dud or not your find could be dangerous enough to take out an eye or worse or blow a finger off.
    .
    0134.JPG
    obviously this ended up much larger than actual size. The projectile is a HE (high explosive) round.
    0134.JPG
     
  5. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    20x102

    This American cartridge is probably the most widely used 20mm round in service today, due to the fact that it is chambered in the M61 (Vulcan) "gatling" rotary cannon fitted to US fighters, the naval Phalanx close-in weapon system, and some AA vehicles. It is also chambered in the US M39 revolver cannon (as fitted to many 1950s USAF fighters, and still used in the F-5), the current French GIAT 20M621, and the Czech ZPL-20, a version of the Russian 23mm GSh-23 twin-barrel aircraft gun rechambered for the NATO round. The history of this cartridge goes back to WW2 when a very powerful .60 inch anti-tank rifle was developed. This never saw service but the 15.2x114 ammunition was used in various experimental aircraft guns developed during WW2, notably the T17 which was a modified Mauser MG 151. After the war the .60 cartridge remained the USAAF's preferred basis for new aircraft guns, and the first versions of what became the M39 and the M61 were chambered for it. However, the advantages of explosive shells were finally accepted by the USAF and the case was necked out to 20mm and slightly shortened to keep the overall length the same. Many different loadings in several countries have been developed for this round, including APDS (for the Phalanx). The original USAF ammunition was the M50 series; this was largely replaced by the more streamlined, multi-purpose PGU-28/B from the late 1980s, but the older rounds have been reinstated because of concerns over premature explosions in the barrel. All versions of the 20x102 use electric priming.

    [​IMG]I had a picture here or so I thought but it didn't come thru. I think your projectile is from and american 20mm gun. The round 20x102 as described above.
    .
    [​IMG] The second round from left.
     
    HK_User likes this.
  6. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    Maybe someone around the area has a Lahti or Solothurn and is a big fan of Henry Bowman.
     
  7. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Makes sense. I was thinking 20mm. And was wondering about the silver tip if it might be incendiary or HE, or even DU. We are near an airbase so we thought it probably was from a fighter.
     
  8. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

  9. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    It looks just like those in your link Cato. I think it is not Incendiary or HE. Plain round. I don't know how it would have ended up out in the middle of no-where, miles from the airbase unless, it was an overshot from the practice range that traveled this far. The lack of deformity had me wondering if it had been fired. That and the brass "fins" on the tail end are not deformed at all. Don't know. But I knew I'd get answers on the monkey!!! Thanks guys.
     
  10. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    If it is as suggested, by tac in post #5 it's most likely an armour piercing incendiary.....the striations on the obturating band near the base of the projectile indicate that it has been fired. The silver tip is a ballistic cap to optimise trajectory and accuracy....that the ballistic cap is not deformed may indicate that the incendiary component (red phosphorus) has not been activated... I wouldn't be playing around with it. Usually high explosive munitions have a yellow band around the projectile indicating HE.
     
  11. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    A red band would indicate incendiary round... the red and yellow repesent HEI , and black would be AP... Blue would represent tp ( target practice)... I would guess a possible German WWII 20mm AP round... but no bets...
     
  12. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    I prefer to error on the side of safety. The fact that is was recovered in a sandy area, windswept on a regular basis I assumed, I felt any identifying paint was worn off. The copper rotating band shows marks from rifling and verifies it was fired. Dud, Live, or totally inert? Why take a chance? Have it looked at by an aircraft armorer familiar with 20mm ordnance to be sure, or drop it in deep water so regardless no one gets hurt. JMO
     
    chelloveck likes this.
  13. Clyde

    Clyde Jet Set Tourer Administrator Founding Member

    If you heat up the round, we will know if if is inter, HE, HEI or just a target round. [woot]
     
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  14. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    Thank you Clyde. Now the CYAs will commence.
     
  15. tacmotusn

    tacmotusn Mosquito Sailor

    Damn it Clyde, where is the voice of reason? Why not have it shipped to you along with a hammer. You can sit on a concrete driveway or sidewalk with a cold beer and beat the hell out of it. It shouldn't take too long to find out if it is inert or not.
    .
    All sane folks reading this, please go back and read all posts on this thread. What I really believe is that this projectile should be considered live, and disposed of safely, or examined by an expert!
    .
    BTW, this particular post somewhat violates the new years resolution I made just today. I will do that when it comes to safety.
     
    kellory, chelloveck and VisuTrac like this.
  16. Minuteman

    Minuteman Chaplain Moderator Founding Member

    Well I am not the one who found it and was leery of handling it myself. I took the pics to post. I was thinking Depleted Uranium, we are in the ME close to Kuwait. They were used a lot in the Gulf war. But with the proximity of the airbase I would assume it was fired during a training exercise. I see now the copper band on the base (as compared to the unfired ones). So definitely been fired. The guy was thinking about taking home in his suitcase. Umm, no, don't think that's a good idea. I'll tell him to toss it back out in a sand dune and forget it.
    Reminds me of the time we were in Egypt and a dozer was clearing a pad for our rig. It hit something metal. We were all diggin around it with shovels and banging on it. Got most of it dug up and realized it was an unexploded bomb from WWll. Doh!
     
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  17. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    You should buy the brass to go along with it and fix it up, then take it to your local DNR guy and ask if you can deer hunt with "this." http://www.cdvs.us/20mm-Vulcan-fired-brass-case--P650.aspx

    The "fins" are from the rifling on the barrel.

    lg0000006618_A_1295503024.
    lg0000006618_A_1295503024.
     
  18. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Having been fired, it's an odds on bet the color bands were blown away. I would call the airbase and have them evaluate it rather than tossing it back in the sand. Might be inert, might not.

    If it carries a payload of something un-nice, it will be relatively light. If it's DU, it's going to be heavier than solid lead. Useless info without a known round for comparison --
     
  19. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    This written by a "tactful"? GM chief who has most likely seen a seaman deuce nearly drop a live 5 inch in the mags.
     
  20. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    What? So, it wouldn't be OK to get a hack-saw and take a cross-section to see what's inside??
     
    Minuteman likes this.
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