What's your opinion on 308 SHTF rifle... AR/M1A

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Blackjack, Nov 30, 2006.


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  1. Tempstar

    Tempstar Monkey+++

    Kel-Tec RFB. Surprised is all I can say when I first got it. Good accuracy and FAL mags.
     
  2. OldDude49

    OldDude49 Just n old guy

    was at Cabelas the other day and seem Century Arms is now also making a HK clone...

    not bad lookin and the price is pretty low...

    Century Arms C308 Synthetic Rifle : Cabela's
     
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  3. avagdu

    avagdu Monkey++

    I believe those are more similar to the CETME design, but more or less the same thing as the HK. If I recall they used PTR receivers too so they are probably good. Sadly, I could never find the C308 locally.
     
  4. Rocky Road Lerp

    Rocky Road Lerp Monkey+++

    Pretty heavy piece to lug around imo. Sure, the range is an advantage as well as the take down factor. Been looking at the conversions for the AR so i can have the best of both worlds. Although the .223 was intended to maim, it's still quite deadly.
     
  5. AD1

    AD1 Monkey+++

    I have shot the full auto version at a SOCOM event in Tampa 3 years ago and fell in love.

    Wife was going to by me one for my birthday, but I declined since I was not working [banghead]
     
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  6. avagdu

    avagdu Monkey++

    Lucky you got to shoot one!
     
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  7. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Same weight as an AK. Friend of mine bought oneof the c308, and dug out the cetme trash he didn;t want and replaced it from HK parts as he got the coin together.
     
  8. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    I went with a Savage FCP bolt gun for my .308, primarily because it is intended to be my reach out and touch somebody rifle. It is more accurate than I am, threw some Nikon glass on it and called it good and under $1K.
     
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  9. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    My .308 Winchester Rifle is a custom built DPMS AR10, sporting their 24" Stainless Bull Barrel. Topped of with Burris Eliminator III Optics.... Took a while to find the SweetSpot loading for the Barrel, but once found, the progression to other Loadings, using different Projectiles fell into place fairly quickly.... If Old Mort, or any of his extended Family, happen to walk by, in front of the Cabin, during the next 30 Days, they will become Mooseburger Helper mak'ens....

    IMG_0136.
     
  10. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    Big fan of scout rifles, and I love the M1a scout squad. Looking to try an hk91 clone asap.
     
  11. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Monkey+++ Founding Member

    FN/FAL or L1A1 depending on which version floats your boat most. There were numerous good reasons 90 odd countries issued it in the hey day of 7.62 rifles. As a fighting arm, next comes the G3, then 7.62 Galil and somewhere well back the M14.

    The SCAR is a VERY nice rifle but there is little it is doing that an FAL will not for about 1/2 the price.
     
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  12. avagdu

    avagdu Monkey++

    [​IMG]
    Function test of the PTR-91.

    Ran 100% with the few mags I could run through it, I don't have a budget well suited for shooting a lot of .308. When I was doing my part with breathing and trigger control it was shooting about as good as my budget AR at 50 yards. Doing the mag well hold most of the time because the length of pull is about an inch too long for me. The HK collapsible stock was a lot more comfortable than I expected, but I might switch to a fixed stock and cut it down to about a 12" length of pull which I anticipated I would probably have to do. Time will tell.

    The trigger is.. well, military. It's sloppy and heavy but I usually train around the triggers I have. Obviously I'll need a magnified optic to get the most out of this rifle, but I don't usually shoot at distances farther than I can see with my less than stellar eyesight. Overall it was a fun experience, the recoil not as intimidating as I thought it would be.
     
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  13. Tempstar

    Tempstar Monkey+++

    They make the PTR-91's about 12 miles from my house, and I've had lots of opportunities to shoot them. Good rifle just not great. As Avagdu said, they are a bit sloppy on trigger pull and fit and finish is just OK. Of course, for the money versus an H&K, it ain't bad. Of course price speaks volumes and the MSG model I fondled (didn't get to shoot it) was an order of magnitude nicer, but for $2000 more it should be.
     
  14. BlackhawkFan

    BlackhawkFan Monkey

    I have three 308 semi-automatic rifles.

    My Saiga has a 16 inch barrel and has the same ergs as my other AKs. She's accurate enough, somewhat light, and optics mounting is a no-brainer. The down side are the magazines.
    - Csspecs metal mags are boat anchors. They're stupid expensive and my version has a lip that protrudes at the bottom so good luck fitting them in your web gear. They've upgraded their design, but they're still stupid expensive.
    - ProMag's mags aren't much better. They're lighter, bulkier, and expensive.
    - Uinta Industries' form factor fits my criteria, but I've experienced 50% failure rate (parts literally broke off first time out).

    Love the Saiga, but it's been delegated to the handout pile.

    -----

    M1A Standard shoots sub MOA with my handloads using 150gr bulk FMJBT. It should reach out past 600 yards but I haven't had the time to verify that.

    Optics mount is UltiMAK. I don't recommend receiver mounts, as they're heavy and stupid expensive.

    This rifle is HEAVY, and I'm not getting any younger. Replaced the fiberglass stock with a carbon fiber stock. Still HEAVY. Mags cost $25 each, and if you're like me, you can never have enough mags.

    -----

    I took a chance on Century and picked up their C308. It comes with a rail welded to the top of the receiver. I pulled an Aimpoint off of one of my ARs and slapped it on the C308, and was busting rocks offhand at 100 yards without zeroing the Aimpoint. This means the monkeys at Century mounted the rail parallel to the bore. With a scope, I suspect this will reach out past 600 yards as well.

    Had to modify the mag release, add a railed fore end (MI, IIRC), mounted a light, and replaced the buttstock. Can't stop myself from modifying my rifles to make them my own, but that's just me. Mags are $3, so I have 100ish.

    -----

    I like the C308 over the M1A as an everyday carry rifle. The M1A wins hands down in the looks department, but I personally like the feel of the C308 better. Still plan to pick up an FNFAL just for kicks.

    Compared to the AR, all three 308s are too heavy IMO. If you're hunkered in and the zombies are coming in waves, I can see using any of the three 308s at distance. If I was running with Rick and the gang, I'd pick the AR over the 308s and the AK.

    -----

    Which brings up another thought.... Why not build an AR with a 20 inch heavy fluted fast twist barrel and feed it with 62 to 75 grain bullets? You should be able to reach out to 500 yards with enough residual energy to make a difference. Slap a 1-6 scope (I'm running a Trijicon) or an Aimpoint with a magnifier on a flip mount and you have a solution for both near and far. I've done this and it's a reasonable compromise IMO.
     
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  15. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner Brewery Monkey Moderator

    Exactly... 1 in 7 and 20" Bull barrel like the DPMS Panther Special 24 (exception is the twist rate) 24 SPECIAL

    But, you could build one for less than the MSRP of $1229.00..... :whistle:
     
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  16. avagdu

    avagdu Monkey++

    Did you add a paddle magazine release? If so, can you provide a how-to?
     
  17. BlackhawkFan

    BlackhawkFan Monkey

    I added the paddle mag release. It's been a while. Let me think and I'll get back to you. I remember adding a set screw or something to increase the reliability.
     
    Dunerunner likes this.
  18. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    With all of the upgrades like that you get on the new PTR 91 models, I am having a harder time not justifying one.
     
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  19. BlackhawkFan

    BlackhawkFan Monkey

    The cost of mods weren't much. You can keep the original furniture. If you want to run a flashlight (recommended) and the occasional bipod, I recommend a metal forearm with rails. That'll run you maybe $150.

    The paddle mod was pretty cheap, but a must do IMO.

    Another thing about the C308. Everyone complains about the recoil. First time I shot it, I braced for the mule kick that would dislocate my shoulder and put me in bed for a week. It never came. IMO, this is a very soft shooting .308. It flings brass maybe 40 feet so if you reload, make sure you can recover the brass.
     
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  20. AxesAreBetter

    AxesAreBetter Monkey+++

    I had a m1a scout squad...everyone told me it was going to be a kicker (.308 from a 20" barrel)....I've shot a M1 carbine with more recoil impulse and muzzle flip. Definitely on par or less than the S&W AR thing I owned for five minutes. (Hated that gun).
    Anybody tried the collapsible stocks on them? I have heard yays, and I have heard nays, and I am just looking at my options for a more versatile truck/swamp rifle.
     
    BlackhawkFan likes this.
  1. HK_User
  2. AxesAreBetter
  3. Brokor
  4. Tyler Danann
  5. DLConcepts
  6. 3M-TA3
  7. RouteClearance
  8. Brokor
    Resource

    HK91 (CETME) .308 2014-06-15

    Heckler & Koch GMBH - 6 pages.
    Posted By: Brokor, Jun 15, 2014 in category: Firearm Manuals
  9. Brokor
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