Second Amendment When Americans Ignore an ‘Assault Weapons’ Ban?

Discussion in 'Bill of Rights' started by Yard Dart, Feb 27, 2018.

  1. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    Prohibition was kneecapped by Americans' widespread refusal to stop producing, selling, and drinking booze. Millions of Americans smoked marijuana decades before majority sentiment creeped toward legalizing the stuff. Gays and lesbians not only surreptitiously lived and loved when they were targeted by the law—they also famously (and righteously) stomped cops who raided the Stonewall Inn, ultimately precipitating liberalization. And restrictions on exporting encryption were eased only after cryptographers illegally exported code—even printing it on T-shirts as an act of civil disobedience.

    But in the wake of Omar Mateen's bloody rampage in Orlando, gun control advocates think that overcoming the passionate opposition of firearms owners and imposing a ban on a difficult to define class of "assault weapons" is a swell idea whose time has come. This prohibition will somehow be different.

    "Those who defend the easy accessibility of assault weapons should meet these families and explain why that makes sense," President Obama tut-tutted last week. But the moralizer-in-chief failed to make sense himself, calling for the outlawing of a category of devices that doesn't really exist.

    "The term assault weapon itself, of disputed origin, is a thorn in the side of gun enthusiasts, who point out that the differences between 'assault weapons' and other semi-automatics are largely cosmetic and don't increase the gun's lethality," explains Slate senior editor Rachael Larimore, in a piece taking the media to task for reporting and editorializing on guns without getting the facts straight.

    "Because these guns are really just ordinary rifles, it is hard for legislators to effectively regulate them without banning half the handguns in the country (those that are semiautomatic and/or have detachable magazines) and many hunting rifles as well," adds UCLA law professor and gun control advocate Adam Winkler, who has actually done his research.

    Winkler also emphasizes why gun owners are so hardened in their opposition to further legal restrictions: "Gun control advocates ridicule the NRA's claim that the government is coming to take away people's guns, then try to outlaw perhaps the most popular rifle in the country."

    Gun owners' response is best summarized by one of their more popular slogans of recent years: "Molon labe." Usually translated as "come and take them," that was Spartan King Leonidas I's legendary response to the Persian demand that he and his men surrender their weapons before the Battle of Thermopylae.

    That gun owners mean what they say in the "assault weapons" context can be inferred from the 5 percent compliance rate achieved by New York's recent registration requirement for such firearms. Or from the 15 percent compliance rate in neighboring Connecticut.

    In 1990, even before opposition had become so hardened, California experienced similar resistance to its original restrictions on "assault weapons."

    "As a one-year registration period draws toward an end on Dec. 31, only about 7,000 weapons of an estimated 300,000 in private hands in the state have been registered," The New York Times reported.

    When New Jersey went a step further and banned the sale and possession of "assault weapons," 947 people registered their rifles as sporting guns for target shooting, 888 rendered them inoperable, and four surrendered them to the police. That's out of an estimated 100,000 to 300,000 firearms affected by the law. The New York Times concluded, a bit drily, "More than a year after New Jersey imposed the toughest assault-weapons law in the country, the law is proving difficult if not impossible to enforce."

    Some advocates of restrictions will object that they "don't want to take away" existing guns—they just want to prevent the acquisition of new ones. That narrative becomes complicated when officials like New York Governor Andrew Cuomo muse that "Confiscation could be an option"—a sentiment echoed by the New York Times editorial board.

    But let's go with it. So, the government somehow defines "assault weapons" in a meaningful way and bans sales of new ones. How is that going to be effective given the millions of disfavored weapons already in circulation? That includes roughly 8 million AR-15-style rifles alone—out of somewhere north of 300 million firearms in general. It's not like they're going anywhere. Plenty of 19th century firearms are still in working condition.

    And their numbers will increase, even if commercial production and sales are outlawed. People have been 3D-printing AR-15 lower receivers (the parts legally classified as a firearm) for years. More durable receivers are CNC-milled by hobbyists from partially finished blanks as well as raw blocks of metal. These techniques were developed in anticipation of the laws now proposed, with the specific purpose of rendering them impotent.

    Molon labe, remember?

    So, a United States the morning after, or a year after, or a decade after a successful effort to ban "assault weapons" will not be the scene of the "domestic disarmament" favored by prominent communitarian sociology professor Amitai Etzioni. It will be more like Prohibition-era America, but with hidden rifles substituting for stockpiled hooch and 3D printers standing in for moonshiners' stills. And probably a bit more tense.

    Those defiant gun owners will also be included in the jury pools chosen to sit in judgement of unlucky violators scooped up by law enforcement. That situation will likely replicate the difficulty prosecutors had in getting convictions of Prohibition scofflaws in the 1920s and marijuana law resisters today. "f juries consistently nullify certain types of criminal charges (charges for possession of a small amount of marijuana, for example), this can render an unpopular law ineffective," wrote John Richards at the LegalMatch blog after a jury couldn't even be seated in Montana.

    "If you pass laws that people have no respect for and they don't follow them, then you have a real problem," Connecticut Sen. Tony Guglielmo (R-District 35), told the Hartford Courant when large numbers of state residents flipped the bird to lawmakers and defied the new gun law.

    Well... yes, you do. And like their restriction-inclined predecessors, gun controllers will have quite a mess on their hands.

    What Will Gun Controllers Do When Americans Ignore an ‘Assault Weapons’ Ban?
  2. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

  3. Zimmy

    Zimmy Wait, I'm not ready!

    Some factions seem itching for a violent fight against gun owners.

    The conservatives will fight for rights already earned much harder than the liberal dreamers will fight for acquisition of “new” rights or privileges.

    Let nobody wonder why when reality is pushed to tooth and claw versus words and tears. The hammer and the sickle will both be blunted and broken on the anvil.
    Dont, Bandit99, Dunerunner and 2 others like this.
  4. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    YUP! Weather or not any Assault weps ban gets through or not, at some point the States will restrict or ban what ever they can get and in the case of OryGun, do it by emergency measures in the middle of the night, and it becomes defacto law! But, Who do they expect to enforce it? In Colorado, we suffered the "High Capacity Magazine Ban" and while one or two were actually caught and attempted to prosecute, Most of us defied that law and are happily still able to purchase "Maintence Kits" which skirt the law, and they know it and can do nothing to stop it! Same thing with the "Featureless Rifle" law in Kalifornia, by letter of the law, once said rifle is equipped with a non detachable mag, that rifle is no longer required to be featureless, and the magic of the industry at confounding the State has nullified the law! Sure, they continue to go after that AR and similar Evil Black Assault Rifles with Great Gusto, but the industry is very adapt at beating the State, and the BATF has thusly sided with the Industry! Even if a Full ban were to come down from the great FED, how in hell do they expect to enforce it? Even at the Local and State levels, its far too man power intensive to find out who has what, and we can always claim that hirable boating accident, or other such occurrence, and the burden of proof falls on them!
  5. ghrit

    ghrit Bad company Administrator Founding Member

    I have to wonder what sort of violence these "factions" intend to employ. D'ye s'pose they might arm themselves with something a bit longer reach than an arm?
    Dont, Bandit99, 3M-TA3 and 2 others like this.
  6. Yard Dart

    Yard Dart Vigilant Monkey Moderator

    Grandpa Patch, Dont, oldawg and 10 others like this.
  7. Zimmy

    Zimmy Wait, I'm not ready!

    Typical commie tools.

    Media, bombs, poisons, assassination, and small groups of indiscriminate gunmen.

    I’m sure we should add other jihadi techniques like running over folks with vehicles as demonstrated in London and Austin Texas at SXSW festival.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  8. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki Grampa Monkey

    I humbly volunteer to assist in the destruction of any and all weapons Y.D. gets sent, For the Children, fer Crissakes!
    Bandit99, 3M-TA3 and Yard Dart like this.
  9. aardbewoner

    aardbewoner judge a human on how he act,not on look and talk.

    From the point of a government its great you destroy anything you have bought! the collected tax so pff. Same as making it illegal, do the refund payed tax ?Do we get a politician ban ? The kill more people then any gun has ever done. And most forget the TONS of assault weapons that are shipped to the middle east,there the are used by everybody, no age restriction! And If i see the war trucks,i cant wonder who payed for all that.One rocket cost minimal 80 goats.
    And the still valid golden truth, no weapon kill on it own, its the person that wield it.
    (soon robot weapons just kill on there own)
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  10. oil pan 4

    oil pan 4 Monkey+++

    80 goats sounds really high.
    Bandit99 and Ura-Ki like this.
  11. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    The after should include the dad shooting hoops with is son or mowing the lawn, or a woman protecting her children from an attacker.
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  12. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    Just like they expect someone else to pay for their stuff they expect someone to do the dirty work for them.
    oldawg and Ura-Ki like this.
  13. Bandit99

    Bandit99 Monkey+++ Site Supporter+

    Most here are prior military or have relations who were in the military. The first thing one is taught to an Officer or NCO is not from any text book or lecture. It is taught by mentors, experienced military personnel that guide, train and teach the young Officers and NCOs. That rule is simple: "Never give an order that will not be obeyed." For if you do, you lose their respect which your authority is based upon and you can be certain there will be future orders that they will not follow from that point forward.

    @oil pan 4 "80 goats sounds really high."
    I thought I would break my gut laughing! Felt like I got gut punched! LOL!!! Don't know why...too much time overseas!!!! LOL!!!!!

    This morning, I read on this forum something from one of its members that struck home. A simple few lines that perfect rebuts the fantasy that more laws will stop these whackos. @techsar wrote, "murder is already illegal...and you can clearly see how much that threat deterred him."

    BTW the last place I was overseas (Central Asia), guns were illegal also but loads of people had them. They came from Afghanistan and even China, good quantity and quality, especially some of the old AKs, beautiful condition. They were easily accessible via the black market so much so that when the country had a bloody revolution (had two while I was there, one was bloody) those firearms were put to use and they drove out the President. Yes, he and family had to leave the country. A straight up coup. The Army refused to assist and when loyal security started firing at the crowds - well - they then started to shoot back and it was over in minutes. My point is even though guns were illegal they were still obtainable. And, guns are no where close to being the tradition there that they are here.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  14. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    ALWAYS Remember, it was ONLY 3% of the Colonies Population that took up Arms in the American Revolution... and they didn't win by taking the Cities, they did it by Isolating the British in the cities and kicking the A$$'es when they ventured out of the Cities.... It will be similar in the USA should the .GOV do something STUPID, and RileUp our 3%.... and that is assuming that the Army gets into it, BIG Time... and that is not very likely, as they are Citizens as well as the 3%...
    Grandpa Patch, oldawg, 3M-TA3 and 3 others like this.
  15. Byte

    Byte Monkey+++

    I'll gladly sell the godvernment all of my guns. Each one is worth about a million bucks to me. Oh but a few were lost on the lake of lost ordinance sometime back. Guess they can't buy those. I'm sad.
    Yard Dart likes this.
  16. 3M-TA3

    3M-TA3 Cold Wet Monkey

    I only have one gun - a shotgun. Everything else has rifling.
    Grandpa Patch likes this.
  17. We often discussed the subjects of gun confiscation over lunch at work. Me no military experience, the others ran the full gamut, all five branches. Biggest questions were, what would the active duty military do, what would the guard and reserve do, how long before the U.N. sent in the smurfs? With no way too organize a resistance, how long could an insurgency hold out? Would a cadre of vets be able to organize effective units? How could secure comm's be established and maintained? Am I paranoid not to trust the government?
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  18. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    The Secure Comms is not all that hard to do... We have MonkeyNet, and we will be happy to share that technology with ANYONE who is interested... Realizing that it hasn’t been updated in better than 5 Years, it is still viable...
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