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When is it time.......

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by BTPost, Nov 16, 2012.

  1. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

    When is it time to relieve GrandPa of his weapons? @VisuTrac.... Last night we got a call from my SIL, that GrandPa (79+) had had an Accidental Discharge, when trying to unload his DanWesson .357Mag. Apparently he was trying to get the Cyl to open, and was getting frustrated in accomplishing this procedure, so he could UnLoad the weapon. In the process, somehow he had an AD, and blew his left hand Ring Finger, clean off at the first Knuckle. I guess we will just call him "Stubby" from now on. After the call, Momma and I went and got here DW from on top of the Fridge, (where it lives) and unloaded it. then went thru the operations, to see how in heck he could possibly make this happen. There are mechanical Safeties designed into this revolver, that preclude this happening. FIRST, The Cyl can ONLY Be Opened, when the Hammer is in Battery, and NOT Cocked. Second,There is NO Half Cocked Position in this weapon. Third, This Weapon has a Hammer Disconnector so that the Firing Pin can only be struck, if the Hammer falls from the Full Cock Position. Fourth, If the weapon is Full Cock Position, the Cyl is LOCKED, and can, neither Rotate, or be Opened. So the only way this could happen, is that he had the weapon in Full Cock Position and was trying to force the Cyl Open, and pulled the trigger. So the question stands. Is it time to relieve GrandPa of this Weapon? GrandMa still has here Ruger 380ACP SemiAuto, so it is not like they are unArmed.
    OPINIONS are welcomed......
  2. Pax Mentis

    Pax Mentis Philosopher King Site Supporter

    Well...as one getting seriously close to old farthood, and having recently reached a point where I had to recognize that I am no longer able to deal with the responsibilities of maintaining the family "compound" and delegated those responsibilities to the next generation, this is a bit of a touchy situation for me.

    I am still of the opinion that, before one can decide that another is no longer able to have a gun (or any number of other things), they must first decide that that person is no longer able to make rational decisions for him or herself...recognizing that, by making and enforcing that decision, they are doing serious damage to the person's self-image...in effect making that person doubt his or her own worth and frequently diminishing their will to live.

    Yes, I realize this is of little help, as it is just a caution rather than a suggested solution...sorry, it's all I have.
    franks71vw, tulianr and chelloveck like this.
  3. RightHand

    RightHand Pioneer in a New World Moderator Founding Member

    It is one of life difficult moments when we realize that the time has arrived that we are forced to make those decisions for the ultimate benefit of another person. During the years that I cared for my parents, I had to make many of those decision, as most of us do. When I knew that my father could no longer drive (he was legally blind,) I had to inform him that if he chose to disregard not only his safety but the safety of others, I would call the police if I knew he was driving. Harsh sounding maybe but necessary. In exchange, each Sunday when the weather was nice, I would take him to a large industrial park with wide roads and buildings set far back, get him into the drivers seat and let him cruise around for a while. No, it wasn't the freedom that he really wanted but it was the only compromise I was willing to make. When my mother's eyesight and judgement failed, I made adventures of the places I had to drive her and we began Saturday rituals that were meaningful to us both.

    The firearms were less of a concern for me because I took all the ammo until I moved into their house to care for them.

    I don't think there are any easy answers to adapting to life changes and I certainly pity my poor daughter when she tries to tell me I can no longer drive or keep my loaded shotgun under my bed. I will not go quietly into the good night!
    kellory, chelloveck and CaboWabo5150 like this.
  4. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Probably about the same time you have to take the car keys. Trauma on both ends, I can tell you.

    Also, check G-ma out so you know that she can operate the 380. There is some hand strength needed with semis.
  5. -06

    -06 Monkey+++

    Times arise when some things necessarily have to be done. We don't like it--they don't either but that is life. The Bible says that when we get older others will lead us where we do not want to go. Losing your independence is a horrible fact of life that we all will have to endure----if we are blessed to have a long life.
  6. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    @BTPost Big question is, does GP know what he did wrong? I mean besides the digiectomy? Can he explain what the chain of event that caused him to make the judgemental error. If not, Time for GP to get a new tool or for GM to be the shootist and GP to be the reloader/spotter.

    Dead eye in my basement is getting pretty close to having me remove at least the firing pins from his bolt guns and maybe doing some gun smithing on the others that he has access to that will insure no primer strike. Mostly due to his lapses in judgement and safe gun handling techniques. And he's only 67. My pre-teen daughter has better judgement.

    My FIL is NOT trainable nor re-trainable. I may have to make some serious decisions if TSHTF, like putting him in front of the house to attract high speed projectiles while we get ourselves into position but that will be my call.

    Not all old folk need to have their shootist license revoked, My GPa was 85 when he passed and was still popping weasels with his ruger single six convertible the winter before he went. No AD's or Judgement issues.

    So, does he know what he did wrong? Is he willing to back to get some professional re-education? If so, he might be ok if GM says she can deal with the ol' man having his gun back.
    BUT ....
    If GM says no.
    He's got no clue how it happened.
    He's not willing to getting some training from a wheel gun pro.
    then, I think it's time GP got a new task, like loading for GM.

    Just my 2 cents worth, and that's about what it's worth.
    Capt. Tyree likes this.
  7. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    For Christ sake, old people with guns are funny. Let him shoot whatever he wants, just caution him about his fingers and other body parts., kidding aside, if he is still able to fend for himself, then he just made a stupid mistake and paid for it.
    Gator 45/70 and Capt. Tyree like this.
  8. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    I have noticed as I've aged that frustration sets in quicker.I have a hard time remembering to just back away a minute and contemplate and then proceed. I also know of much younger people who did the stupid deal a time or two. If no AD then talk to him about other mental and physical skills and make a judgement.I agree with -06 that it is a fact of life that sooner or later we lose our independence but don't assume that is what needs to be done just based on his age.Just 02 cents from a getting there codger myself.
  9. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    "I think it's time GP got a new task, like loading for GM." NO. Loading (or unloading) is how he hurt himself in the first place.
    Feeling useless, has got to be one of the worst feelings there is. And few adults (of any age) will accept restrictions from their own kids, even when the danger is apparent. They are more likely to accept the judgement of a stranger, than someone who's diapers they've changed.
    I would suggest, taking him to a professional shooter for training, and let him, explain the facts of life (and death)
    In my job, I deal with a lot of old drivers. Alot of them are pretty bad, and some are a danger to themselves and others....and they KNOW it, but drive anyways. I called the cops on one of my customers who would not tell his doctor about blacking out at the wheel, because he KNEW the doctor would pull his licence. He had just driven through his garage for the 6th time. His daughter knew, but could not make him listen, so she kept silent. He could have killed many people, on a freeway, or a shopping mall, a school zone....
    There comes a time, when to honor your parents, and defend them from folly, you must say 'Because I love you, I must say NO"
    I had something similar with a GrandMother I'll discuss privately if you wish.
  10. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    swap to a top break shotgun with good ejectors...
    Gator 45/70, mysterymet and tulianr like this.
  11. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    LOL, GM has a semi auto that takes magazines.
  12. Gunny Highway

    Gunny Highway Hard Work and Sacrifice blessed by God's Grace Site Supporter

    Sorry I missed this. I agree with Sea, Bruce, he will learn from the mistake like we all do. Not sure how it happened as my S & W .357 is easiest gun I own to operate ( which is why it has been dedicated to the wife with her Scottish lack of firearms training ). It doesn't fire unless trigger is pulled. He won't get finger near the trigger again. Taking firearms away not only will emasculate the guy but strip him of a basic human right and his dignity.
    hank2222 likes this.
  13. hank2222

    hank2222 Monkey++

    Dam that a rough one becuase of the age group here i feel that it has to hurt to lose one simple right to own and use a firearm .Like many here said make him show you how it happened
  14. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    I guess I'm in the minority here.

    Considering that I have an old geezer living in my basement. I'm sure there are some around here that are still laughing about the 'Misadventures of Ol' Dead Eye'.

    If it comes down to the safety of my immediate family or emasculating the father in law. The boy is gonna get a vascetomy done with a pair of Fiskars and a stapler, oh wait, I meant he's going to loose access to his guns. My house, My rules.
    Gator 45/70, chelloveck and kellory like this.
  15. toydoc

    toydoc Monkey++

    I agree with -06. Getting old is a part of life and we all are going to go through it. My dad had arthritis so bad he could not operate his weapon and he had to rely on me to intervene. I hope that my son-in-laws will tell me it is time to stop and that I'm still able to understand it. It's a shame that the wisdom we gain with our age is outpaced by our ability to function. Tough call but more than a digit could be lost.
  16. TXKajun

    TXKajun Monkey++

    Fortunately, my family won't have to worry about this. I was at the local range last weekend and a guy named Julio Rodriguez offered me an insane amount (at least in my opinion) for almost all my guns and ammo! :) I'll be putting the $$ in the bank over the next couple of weeks. :)

    VisuTrac, oldawg and Gator 45/70 like this.
  17. Gator 45/70

    Gator 45/70 Monkey+++

    I'll be needing one of these when i get that age...

    Gunny Highway and VisuTrac like this.
  18. Gunny Highway

    Gunny Highway Hard Work and Sacrifice blessed by God's Grace Site Supporter

    My preferred weapon of choice ( Remington 870 PMax )
  19. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    This one is older than you and still eager.:D mechanism (1). gun.
  20. VisuTrac

    VisuTrac Ваша мать носит военные ботинки Site Supporter+++

    Let's just hope that it doesn't have Damascus steel barrels or that first load of Modern Factory Buckshot could be the shooters last.
    BTPost likes this.
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