Where's The Line?

Discussion in 'Freedom and Liberty' started by CraftyMofo, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. CraftyMofo

    CraftyMofo Monkey+++

    melbo likes this.
  2. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Great post Crafty. It summarizes much of what I've felt since around 2006, when all my friends thought I was crazy for cashing out and investing in shiny things.

    The comments to the article are illuminating...
    Calling Brokor
  3. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Comments page 1 of 3 so far:

    american are too fat and stupid to revolt...

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 18:52 | 2634057
    When the cognitive dissonance dam breaks and the birth place deniers widely accept that Obama's birth certificate is 100% fraudulent. Can compulsive lier ever accept reality? People who can't accept the fact is easy to label as a lier.
    Yesterday's Maracopa County news conference;
    Breaking News: Sheriff Arpaio Concludes Obama Birth Certificate is a Forgery

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:15 | 2634095
    Criminal #1, "Axis of Evil" Bernanke, says Fed Transparency would "collapse the economy", attacks Ron Pauls "Audit the Fed" Bill. Ol Ron is leading the Revolution, apparently the "line" starts behind him.
    Wake up Zerohedge/Tyler
    You're falling asleep at the wheel here.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:27 | 2634169
    Here is another one for his list:
    #6 Any attempt to confiscate guns or limit the ownership of by the American people as guaranteed in the Second Amendment will at this point lead to some sort of mass rebellion.
    I know many people at this point whom would rather use it, than lose it. That's about all I have to say about that. Molon Labe!

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:36 | 2634207
    General Decline
    I hope you're right but I really doubt it.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:58 | 2634447
    That's why Paul Revere made his ride. The British were coming - to confiscate the chowda-heads weapons. That got those boys in Lexington and Concord pretty pissed off as I recall.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:26 | 2634611
    New World Chaos
    Gun confiscation really is the final line in the sand. Must keep the guns for the big fight.
    The ones who shoot first will lose. Let the government do the first (large scale) shooting. It will help destroy the illusion of legitimacy among the sheeple and the few "good" but brainwashed cops. There will have to be a Tiennamen and an
    activation of the FEMA camps. Ten thousand deaths, bare minimum. This will also make it harder for NWO stooges to rewrite history after the revolution and claim that the government never intended to use the FEMA camps, large concrete coffins, 450 million DHS hollowpoints, etc. Let each family's story prove otherwise. Future generations must know that TPTB are evil and willful ignorance of this fact is an invitation to be sacrificed.
    Mega bonus points if the spark comes after a hyperinflationary collapse. A lot of people will never think until hunger forces them to, and a lot of bureaucrats and contractors won't work for the National Security State if they're paid in toilet paper. States may decide that it is no longer worth chasing worthless Federal funds that come with all the usual puppet strings attached. There won't be anyone supporting the system in hopes of getting a worthless Social Security or pension check. A few retired cops might even join the resistance simply because of vaporized pensions. (Forget about twisted jokes like "Rule of Law", "Justice", "Patriotism", or "Protect and Serve" as motivation for cops. Revenge will have to do). Plus, it will be harder for the revisionists to claim that a few regulatory tweaks could have saved the system if not for those goddamn rightwing terrorists. The endgame of systemic fraud must be as undeniable as ten million bathrooms wallpapered with certificates of confiscation and worthless dollars.
    The victory conditions include a renaissance of freedom, all conspiracies revealed, the NWO in flames, and nobody trusting the elites again for hundreds of years. I would consider it a great victory if a peaceful transformation of consciousness is all it takes, but the end state is not negotiable. If all the realistic paths to that goal involve a massacre followed by guillotines, then that must come.
    I think there will be a lot of deluded hordes lashing out at the wrong targets, like "rich" engineers. This is a carefully planned trap for the productive class. There will be a lot of false flags, race- baiting, narcing for fiat, communities turned against themselves by desperation and carefully manipulated anger. Wisdom will be as essential, and scarce, as Mad Max gasoline.
    I think the revolution will be decided by veterans fighting Feds, Blackwater and cops. City cops in particular are carefully selected for gangsterism. If there is any doubt about what side the cops will be on, look what happened when the Albuquerque police union enacted $500 "stress" payments whenever cops shot someone.
    Shootings surged by 400%.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:31 | 2634782
    Bill Ayers (Obama's non-buddy) was involved in contingency planning for just this type of event....look up 'Prairie Fire'...there is an FBI file on it...

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:36 | 2634793
    When governments become tyrannical, good people become outlaws. Unknown
    We will soon see how many good people there are left.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:50 | 2634820
    "Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories." Sun Tzu
    Any guesses on who or what the enemy is? And no, don't reference Pogo.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:53 | 2634827
    As long a the sheeple are comfortable in their homes with soothingly repetitive music (most often thirty years old) and television - and facebook - they will consider revolution to be some wild-eyed scheme of mad hippies looking to "take down the man". A family's home is his/her castle and as long as the majority believe they are secure in their homes there will be no rebellion. (It helps to convince the sheeple that it is only the slackers, who were free-loading, that are losing out - and that "if you work hard enough you can make it". That way it's "those people" - not like us!)
    Propaganda. They can't live without it.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:01 | 2634435
    OKOK OKOKOKOK THERE needs to be some serious discussion of the right to bear arms and it's MODERN relavance to a revolutionary moment.
    while i am MORE than willing to acknowledge the 'importance' of this right as a funamental bullwark against govenrment encroachment, there are far too many conservatives out there who think that this right is going to be some big issue. in fact, alex jones and every other website catering to the gun wingers emphasizes this 'threat' nonstop.
    they're wrong and here's why.
    1) they don't need your guns to take away your money. in colonial america, gold and prescious metals and BARTER were common for daily generation of wealth used to feed families. families also made more of their own consumed items. horses were used. THIS IS NO LONGER. they can take away your money and your gasoline and your gunpowder without coming for your guns. you can have a whole casch of kalashnikovs but you need ammo, gunpowder, gasoline, to resist the government. BEFORE the government cuts you off from ammo, gunpowder, and gas, they will TAKE your money by hyper inflation.
    2) guns are not an organizing force despite the fact that the right to bear arms is a gathering call for the far right, GUNS are not a collective movement. MILITIAS are a collective movement. MILTIAS are being effectively targeted by government. The right to bear arms without the effective right to state miilitias is more or less meaningless. 20 men with guns can accomplish a lot. any group this large needs a right to exist openly to become powerful. the government spies on militias and , for the most part, has effectively squashed the many rights to organized gun ownership.
    that said ---guns and knives!!! hell yea!
    by the way----I am not here just to be critical. i have some ideas. funamental to the long winding road towards a real revolution, is developing effective resistance against the machine. the machine is huge. you will not have a revolution of the 'mob' against the machine. an organized revolution against the machine requires legal organization. there is only ONE way to organize against the machine. as a classical liberal it pains me that 'liberals' cannot accept that the only bulwark against federal power is STATE power and not federal statism. no one is going to 'take over' the federal government. the federal goverment is going to change. and the only way to force revolutionary change on the federal govenrment is to bait the federal government into assymetric conflict with state governments. head on conflict favors the fed. i'm advocating guerilla style legal tactics ---baiting federal government into obstructive legal behavior by the states. for example changing STATE constitituions to favor STATE authority over federal authority, to hamper federal authority, to bleed the federal govenrment of its effective deployment of resources, to make it more expensive and time cnomsuming for the IRS to conduct business of taxation, to hamper the usage of federal courts rather than state courts.
    and for all the people who are conservatives and get annoyed with 'liberals'. remember that VERMONT is one of the only states with constitutional right to carry. and has NO restrictions on concealed carry. so if you wanna walk around with a gun all day without a 50 dollar fee and registration approval. go to vermont.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:07 | 2634468
    Regarding Vermont, we have the same freedoms here in AZ.
    I won't debate you on points 1 & 2 on the internet, but suffice to say people have stockpiled survival items including ammo, gasoline, etc... and there are militias public and private.
    I do agree that there are many ways to "skin a cat", and please continue to share your ideas with us.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:12 | 2634480
    "The right to bear arms without the effective right to state miilitias is more or less meaningless."
    When the guns were confiscated in N.O. after Katrina, households were robbed and women raped, sometimes by the police officers according to some accounts. A gun matters in a home burglery, a campus shooting binge, etc.
    Also, take away guns, thugs will use bats, kitchen knives etc.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:16 | 2634622
    Dick Buttkiss
    Sorry, but our guns aren't for use against the government; they're for defending ourselves against each other when government collapse looses anarchy upon the land.
    Civilization has a very thin veneer, after all, especially civilization of the urban-industrial sort, as a few days without water, food, or electricity will make painfully clear.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:58 | 2634733
    By your logic there must be a clear line drawn defining the point "when government collapses" before we can use "our" guns. Hopefully you understand such a line would continuously be redefined by the very same government? Your logic fails because you assume government is good, that government isn't made up of men, and that these men are the purest of all.

    "When governments fear the people, there is liberty..." - TJ

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:09 | 2634754
    Tijuana Donkey Show
    You get my vote, as the govt will let everyone fight it out, then deal with the survivors. That's why in NO they let it sit for a few days, then "helped". My advice, learn a martial art, and stay in shape.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:22 | 2634663
    Tristan Ludlow
    Interesting concepts and probably a practical way to eventually reduce the power of the federal government. However, I am afraid that time has passed. The states learned quickly how to suckle at the teat of federal government. Once hooked, you can never go back without significant detox.
    As far as the effectiveness of states slowing down IRS agents from collecting the money using the courts, I say a few well placed pieces of lead would have the same effect in very short order.
    The context of the article is, at what point, will this happen. Quite frankly, there are so many militias coming on line, the feds will not be able to incapacitate them all. We are very close to the tipping point. The triggering event cannot be too far off. The 4th Turning may yet come to pass.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:53 | 2634280
    clawfoot tub
    Ben Shalom is hardly criminal #1. He is merely playing his role, doing his job, a distraction for the sheep's venom.
    Who hired him?
    And where was your hero Ron Paul when he had the opportunity to question Obama's eligibility? In fact, where is he today on that?
    Surely you know that your hero's son Rand endorsed Romney, and that Romney is on the record saying that once elected he will defer US ME strategy to Israel.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:31 | 2634379
    Only the planning -- the execution, maimings and traumata will be left forour boys.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:19 | 2634654
    When the US "goes Greece" the revolution will start. Why am I so sure? Look at all the inner city zombies living on welfare cards, section 8 housing, free health care and everything else. When that gets cut off, what will they do? Starve quietly? Sorry, but no.
    Bread and circuses is keeping the sheeple fed and occupied. When the money runs out, the cities will burn.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:11 | 2634759
    Tijuana Donkey Show
    They will starve in their neighborhood, because the bus and gas stations will be out, and most people can't walk into Walmart from the parking lot. SoylentSNAP anyone?

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:28 | 2634779
    Die Free or Live...

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:06 | 2634109
    When the cognitive dissonance dam breaks and the birth place deniers widely accept that Obama's birth certificate is 100% fraudulent.
    I'm assuming you mean that birth place deniers are those that believe Obama was born in Hawaii?
    well, those of us who believe Obama was born in Hawaii would NEVER believe a racist piece of shit who lives in Arizona who has a press conference to keep himself in the public's eyes. Especially not over the Governor of Hawaii and everybody else who's actually seen the darn thing.
    most of us simply don't believe that there was this massive plot to find a Kenyan, raise him as a secret muslim terrorist, and then sneak him into Hawaii and the US, and have him pretend to be a Christian American so that he could eventually go to Harvard Law School and win the Presidency bringing Communism and islam to America. ESPECIALLY since he was born in a time when NOBODY thought a black man could be President. It just strains credibility. My god!
    So: NONE of us "birth deniers" will EVER believe Obama is a Kenyan.
    BUT EVEN IF YOU COULD CONVINCE US: we would not care enough to have a revolution. most people would shrug their shoulders and say "wow."
    Just like NOBODY cared that JOHN MCCAIN was not born in America (born in Panama), and GEORGE ROMNEY was born in MEXICO.
    Where was the Revolution when McCain almost won? hmm???
    NOBODY will go through a revolution over this.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:18 | 2634147
    I do not know where Obama was born...In his 1st book Bio, it claimed he was born in Kenya. He didn't refute that. When running for the Senate the first time he did not refute the charge that he was foreign born. When he applied to Occidental, he applied as a "foreign" student. Will I join a revolution over this - No...But I do think there is enough that someone a little higher up than a County Sheriff should investigate once and for all. There is more evidence that his birth certificate is fraudulent than there is that 9-11 was inside job, but nobody tells the 9-11 truthers to shut up....

    You do not know most people, so quit assuming you can speak for anyone outside your high school clique

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:39 | 2634217
    Yeah, OK fine - but that leaves the Marxist Dictator part.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:56 | 2634291
    Hmmm, your "vote" counter is out of order. Again.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:50 | 2634724
    Yes, I noticed that as well. Very strange.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:53 | 2634828
    Happens when the first words in a post are italicized.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:09 | 2634316
    I'm assuming you mean that birth place deniers are those that believe Obama was born in Hawaii?
    Yes. Obama birth place deniers are just like Holocaust deniers. This has nothing to do with any hypothetical situation. It has to do with national security and not letting constitutionally ineligible people become POTUS. That's all.
    Just the facts man.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:26 | 2634518
    who the fuck cares where he was born? it's not the only law he's breaking. hell, if he was doing a good job at this stage of the game, i wouldn't give a fuck if he was from another galaxy!

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:03 | 2634614
    It's the law!

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:23 | 2634669
    That's a pretty fucking stupid attitude. Doing a good job means honoring his oath to protect and defend the constitution. The fact that he isn't even qualified to be a senator according to that constitution means he is trashing it by simply being in office. And indeed he's trashed every important right except for the 2nd amendment (so far).

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:33 | 2634544
    >> Obama birth place deniers are just like Holocaust deniers.
    What a complete jackass statement. You deserve no more acknowledgement that that.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:06 | 2634322
    I wonder if Arpaio would still be considered a racist if Obama were white and 12 million Swedes had snuck into the US to take advantage of public services here in the US? My guess is no.
    But hey, whatever. No one needs a valid excuse to call someone a racist nowadays, especially someone who actually enforces laws that the federal government won't.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:10 | 2634328
    Chief KnocAHoma
    @Hmm... first McCain was born overseas to military parents who were actively serving the US,

    Second - you are most likely correct that Obama was born in Hawaii, so why did he apply for federal college aide as Kenyan born? Why did his publicist promote him as Kenyan born and he never bothered to correct that?
    Let me answer that last one - He is a lying sack of dog poo that can no longer distinguish the truth from all the massive pile of shit lies he has told in his effort to execute his plan of the greater good.
    In a way I feel really sorry for the poor bastard because stupid fucking ass holes who were more concerned about fashion and his coolness placed him in an office he has no business holding. The dumb ass electorate fucked him by throwing him in the deep end of the pool and expecting him to pump out more welfare and socialist bullshit than the system can produce - result - he sinks and goes down in history as THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER!

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:16 | 2634343
    Really - Owebama has committed fraud at least once.
    I am counting the days and continue to pray for a new president.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:13 | 2634336
    -100 for "Hmm"
    Only 'cuz I can't seem to give you a polite down vote for some reason this evening (system problem) and so out of frustration from multiple attempts, you get the above referenced score. Sorry.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:31 | 2634532
    U put in a credible performance here recently, and had established yurself as a quick study in fight club technique...so it's puzzling to see yu give it all up just as quickly for a cheap shot ad hom of the kind that has no place on these pages Hmm...
    I can't imagine how yur going to recover from a lowball shit-flinging exercise like this bud...and it's not possible to suppose that yur blocking of the vote meter is any longer accidental.
    In fact, the tactics and approach yu use here tonite remind me in no small way of those of yur iconic "black[sic] president", whose willingness to break every pledge and use every dirty trick to cling to power is setting new levels of sleaze in what was already a sleazy bizness...
    yu claim to be a physician...well yu better heal yurself, because the body blow yu have delivered to the credibility of yurself and yur alien god tonite betokens the presence of a swaggering, arrogant fool whose only ability is to put foot in mouth so far that it's stickin out the other orifice right now.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:49 | 2634579
    El Oregonian
    Well most can argue back and forth ad nausem on O's history. He is the one who has spent MY TAX DOLLARS hiding his records. Hey, NOBODY spends Millions hiding your backround... Unless... UNLESS there is something to hide...
    Short and sweet... He's a lying commie son-of-a-bitch whore and your a dumbass...

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:13 | 2634132
    Row Well Number 41
    This argument was lost in 2008 and will change nothing in 2012. Focus on what he has done since getting into office, there is plenty of better ammo there.


    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:53 | 2634433
    Winston Churchill
    The problem is where he currently lives,not where he was born.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:18 | 2634145
    Dr. Sandi
    It doesn't matter if 'they' prove conclusively that Obama is a shape-shifting space alien, not a god-damned thing is going to be done about it.
    Just lie back and think of the Bill of Rights.
    Breaking News: Dr. Sandi Concludes Sheriff Arpaio is a Self-Aggrandizing Asshole.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:24 | 2634168
    Dr Sandi, I guess th epop up to the left proves it. I think so.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:08 | 2634318
    Maybe. Before the Kenyan thing, though, I saw him as one sick fucking preening sadist who takes pride in having inmates wearing pink underwear and suffering every other indignity that strikes his fancy.
    Must be so hot to bend over the POTUS!
    But surely, being so law and order and all, he's pushing back against the banksters' illegal foreclosurers and such? Nope.
    Yeah, self aggrandizing asshole.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:34 | 2634388
    They really think they can fool all the people all the time.
    Obama birth place deniers with OBPD syndrome are clinical liers.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 18:59 | 2634078
    Revolt will happen when the sheep are hungry. Period. Now wheres mah damn EBT card?

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:56 | 2634292
    Yep. When the SNAP card doesn't work at Walmart at 12:01am on the first day of the month. That's when it all goes to shit.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:11 | 2634333
    No doubt! I don't want to be within 20 miles of a Walmart SNAP card breakdown/revolt(maybe farther depending on the landscape). Maybe it would be interesting to be in some kind of hardened location just to watch the carnage...on second thought...nah

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:29 | 2634527
    Or when the frozen food section is empty.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:06 | 2634088
    Well, fat, deceived, and distracted maybe. Nicely tranquillized, let's say.
    Same goes for Europeans, on the whole, though the pitchforks will storm the Bastille again long before they ever reach Capitol Hill.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:19 | 2634152
    "Same goes for Europeans, on the whole, though the pitchforks will storm the Bastille again long before they ever reach Capitol Hill."
    This is my belief as well. The Europeans will be the first to go through austerity and they will not be happy.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:05 | 2634107
    Yes, dumber than 5th graders. But maybe a famine just might burn through some blubber and sharpen some heads.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:19 | 2634150
    Bankers abandon ship at the slightest glimpse of a stampede.
    I guess it would have to be a ship close to shore or stampede of whales. But whales don't have legs. Ya know what I mean.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:24 | 2634166
    It will start when you see the blue helmets.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:08 | 2634470
    Blue helmets will never be seen in the US. It's far too dangerous and we know that at the first sign of danger the blue helmets get called back to France, Belgium or wherever the fuck it is they come from..

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:02 | 2634613
    They ran from the hutus; or was it the tutsis? either way, they won't get much done here.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:33 | 2634195
    El Oregonian
    decus ad mortum

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:11 | 2634477
    My Jesuits would have your ass for that one. WHACK!

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:17 | 2634653
    El Oregonian
    decus ad mortem
    My bad

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:43 | 2634238
    Revolt and you will be snuffed out by the eye in the sky. Are you talking about a peacfull revolt? Yeah right. If you are talking revolt that should have been considered before the CIA and the Pentagon.

    Too late folks....and then they came for me.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:12 | 2634482
    They said the same thing about Syria.....
    The poor people couldn't defeat the whole of the Syrian army. But they will.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:32 | 2634539
    Bombs from the sky are expensive. 12ga shells and .2lr are cheap.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:48 | 2634262
    When enough people miss 9 meals, maybe!

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:07 | 2634326
    You are right. Fat and well-fed people don't revolt but hungry people do.
    However, things do change. A Centrally Managed economy (managed through money printing, interest rates manipulation, and the State supported thievery) is a road to Hell. It is just a matter of time when hunger will come to America. Then, things will change in a hurry.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:18 | 2634346
    ultimate warrior
    Americans may not want to revolt now but it will happen. When their child is crying because of hunger they will revolt. When they see there grandparents, parents, and friends laying dead because of starvation and disease they will revolt. When working no longer matters because the governmet takes all the profit they will revolt. When the government "black bags" everyone who opposes oppression and tyranny they will revolt.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:29 | 2634380
    Besides, Homeland "Security" is well prepared with enough hollow bullets for a two bullet suicide by the entire US population?

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:35 | 2634389
    A Lunatic
    I'm revolting. Somehow that doesn't sound quite right.....................

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:13 | 2634483
    No it's right . You are revolting.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:37 | 2634395
    Miffed Microbio...
    I was at first inclined to down arrow you for that but after observing the swarm of people in San Diego last weekend for ComicCon I changed my mind.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:51 | 2634426
    Thorny Xi
    When "fat and stupid" simply do not work anymore. Let 'em miss three meals in a row, they'll start getting out on the street a bit more. Of course, there won't be any focus to it - just looting TV sets and more food...

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:00 | 2634739
    Oh, they're already looting food and other items. Ever heard of 'flash mobs'?

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:45 | 2634811
    ...fat & lazy ....until the govt can't deliver the free cheese anymore.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 18:44 | 2634033
    I have found that Americans (I live in the US so I can only comment on my fellow citizens) don't even understand the most basic of mathematical concepts. Nevermind financial concepts.
    I'm not too hopeful that they wake up.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 18:56 | 2634049
    Yeah, that's just about right. People are pretty much clueless until the ATM (and/or EBT) stops working.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:43 | 2634712
    The Navigator
    AND, you don't need really good math/financial skills to load a mini-14 ruger or a 12g mossberg

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:07 | 2634064
    I suggest we redefine Pi to 3 to make it easier for everyone to calculate the area of a square.
    /sarc off
    Oh, wait. Some U.S. municipality actually suggested that several years ago. Doh!

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:09 | 2634119
    The Gooch
    It's a 3-d thing.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:19 | 2634153
    Dr. Sandi
    I submit that even if Pi were 3 and you weren't joking about the application, most Americans still couldn't do the math.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:32 | 2634535
    slewie the pi-rat
    if you even need a good caddy, let me know, drSandi
    i will drive the cart and roll
    you try to figure which side of the square is the hypoteneuse, ok? and try to stay in bounds... L0L!!!

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:10 | 2634113
    Given the ideological divide, civil war seems more likely than a unified revolution, hence my experience that the most awake Americans I've met are living abroad. [I am not, but travel extensively]

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 21:51 | 2634583
    Given the _____ divide, CIVIL WAR . . . !
    is never ideology/but, fractions/merely easy division
    Now what did the Rothschilds want? Their desires may be estimated fairly accurately by quoting the opinion given by Disraeli on the future of America when the Civil War was over:—“It will be an America of armies, of diplomacy, of rival States and manoeuvering Cabinets, of frequent turbulence, and probably of frequent wars.”(Annual Register, 1863, N.S. cv. 21). Disraeli was Lionel Rothschild’s mouth-piece. The Rothschilds wished to reproduce in America the chaotic conditions obtaining in Europe whereby they ruled all States; a united America would be too powerful for them; it must be split, and now was the time to do it, but it was awkward that Napoleon III. would not work with them! What were they to do? There was only one answer. Support both sides and prevent a win outright for either side, and so force apart the North and the South, with the possibility of the North becoming annexed to Canada. In practice, this meant helping the weak South more than the strong North . . .
    . . . Abraham Lincoln tried to introduce State Loans to free the people of America from the clutches of the bankers. We need not be surprised therefore that August Belmont “strongly opposed the nomination and election of Lincoln.” Lincoln financed the Civil War on state credit, and for that he was murdered in 1865 by the Jewish actor Booth . . . An attempt to murder Seward was made the same evening; Seward was the man who gave the invitation to the Russian fleet. An attempt against the Tsar himself was made in Paris in the following year and in 1881 he was blown to pieces by a bomb. Lincoln, Seward and the Tsar were the three people who had chiefly prevented the Jewish partition of the United States!
    President Garfield, who held the same views about the true nature of national credit as Lincoln did, was also duly assassinated.
    * * * *
    BISMARCK: The division of the United States into two federations of equal force was decided long before the Civil War by the High Financial Power of Europe. These bankers were afraid that the United States, if they remained in one block and as one nation, would attain economical and financial independence, which would upset their financial domination over the world. The voice of the Rothschilds predominated. They foresaw tremendous booty if they could substitute two feeble democracies, indebted to the Jewish financiers, to the vigorous republic, confident and self-providing. Therefore, they started their emissaries in order to exploit the question of slavery and thus to dig an abyss between the two parts of the republic. Lincoln never suspected these underground machinations . . .
    They made the rupture between the North and the South imminent! The masters of finance in Europe made this rupture definitive in order to exploit it to the utmost. Lincoln's personality surprised them: they thought to easily dupe the candidate woodcutter. But Lincoln read their plots and soon understood that the South was not the worst foe, but the Jewish financiers . . . He obtained from the Congress the right to borrow from the people by selling to it the bonds of the states . . . And the government and the nation escaped the plots of foreign financiers.
    . . . The death of Lincoln was a disaster for Christendom. There was no man in the United States great enough to wear his boots and the bankers went anew to grab the riches. I fear that foreign bankers with their craftiness and tortuous tricks will entirely control the exuberant riches of America and use it to systematically corrupt civilisation."

    "I have two great enemies, the southern army in front of me and the financial institutions, in the rear. Of the two, the one in the rear is the greatest enemy..."

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:08 | 2634626
    so. cont'd . . .
    the lines for revolution have been repeated here, now, for how many years . . . when it is all self-evident; has long been self-evident; and and and : iiwii


    . . . discuss. discuss amongst yaselves . . .

    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. -Jefferson, The Debate Over The Recharter Of The Bank Bill, (1809)
    "History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." -James Madison
    "You are a den of vipers and thieves and I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out!" -- Andrew Jackson, address to Congress 1829
    "I have two great enemies, the southern army in front of me and the financial institutions, in the rear. Of the two, the one in the rear is the greatest enemy..... I see in the future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of the war." -Abraham Lincoln

    BISMARCK: No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 23:54 | 2634830
    Can't decide who I dislike the most...Obama or Nazis like you. Both are of the same.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:11 | 2634126
    I have to agree. I have worked with the public for years but gladly not anymore, at least not directly. I think the majority of business owners and other Americans who are forced to fend for themselves financially feel quite repressed and very over taxed. The current system is set up to reward bad behavior financially and punish good financial behavior. As much as a lot of lazy EBT Card weilding jobless Americans would like to live off those of us who work for a living it WILL NOT LAST MUCH LONGER! Those who work have something more to lose and are also far less lazy. We will not be kept beat down forever even if we have to be business men by day and revolutionaries by night.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:51 | 2634248
    General Decline
    I know some of these " business men and other Americans" you speak off and guess what? They are voting for Mit Romney. They really think that is the answer. We are a long way from a revolution.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:48 | 2634722
    The Navigator
    There's a very short fuse for Romney - if things aren't headed in the right direction shortly after getting into office, OR if it appears the puppet masters really are running the show, the revolution will NOT be a long way off

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 19:55 | 2634288
    dolly madison
    I have been running my own businesses for 10 years now, and I do feel extremely repressed. The rules have kept me from doing many things. I do not feel overtaxed though. I paid much more taxes when I was an employee than running my own businesses. My businesses have been pretty small scale though, no employees.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 22:20 | 2634655
    You won't feel the governments hand in your pocket until you really start to add employees. It isn't just pockets, its headaches of taxes/regulations.
    Selfemployment with no employees is probably one of the best jobs in the world. When you must depend on others for the survival of your business it becomes a daily battle. Good men are hard to find, harder to replace.
    I've been searching for years for a business where I was the only one to depend on. The idea I'm stuck on attempting next needs too many employees to be successful on a scale I'd like to achieve, but I'm still stuck on it.

    Thu, 07/19/2012 - 20:21 | 2634353

    You are right sir! I am one of those small business owner's that is about at the end of my rope! I will get to spend this weekend trying to figure out how to keep this sinking ship sailing, cash flow sucks, and everyone and their fn brother keeps uping the ainty, Fed taxes, state taxes, unemployment taxes, workers comp insurance, health insurance all keep going up and profit margins keep shrinking!
    And then one has to listen to all these D bags arguing over where Obummer was born! Who gives a shit where the guy was born, he is just as every other president since JFK has been a shill and puppet for the frigging PTB!
    Rant over. It's way past beer thirty! Oh, one last thing ORomney=shill and puppet as well! Let me know when the revolution starts, I for one will be there!

  4. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    I just posted this in the Shoutbox in response to ghrit's reposting of the link above:

    What I meant here is, if martial law is in effect and there are troops going from house-to-house confiscating guns with an APC...unless you're in a group, you stand little chance of doing anything but getting you and your family killed.

    Given that the .gov has created a spy network of neighbors (DHS: "If you see odd behaviors by your neighbors that might be terrorist related, call 1-800-LIB-TARD."), are you going to quickly find support from other members of society against the .gov machine? Hell...I'm already suspicious of most people...if this kind of thing happens, finding an armed friend might be tough. You guys who are in groups and rural have a leg-up.

    To further expand this question, at what point will we throw the collective gauntlet down. I can localized engagements here and there....but, when will we as a large group (tens of thousands) say 'No?'
  5. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Whole States will say NO.... Utah for one..... and I expect Aridzonia will be another..... Idaho, Wyoming & Montana as well....the Northeast will fall, and I suspect will most of the south... Texas is a toss up....
  6. sgt peppersass

    sgt peppersass Monkey+

    I know Mass will fall but I won't
  7. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

    This is interesting and related--and there's always the possibility this story could be complete fiction:

    Could it be that the .gov is trying to force a line to be drawn? Perhaps see how far they can go? The more things turn chaotic, the more power they can grab under the guise of protection.

    Originally posted here:
  8. Brokor

    Brokor Live Free or Cry Moderator Site Supporter+++ Founding Member


    BTPost should agree. Once the majority of Americans are out of communicado, take organization, knowledge of the event, prepared resistance, and response of any kind OUT of the equation.

    How can the people do any of these things without communication? Once the grid goes down, that's it. No more nightly news, no cellphones, no internet. This is why I (and others) have stressed the importance of using alternate means of communication. Listen, I don't KNOW what WILL happen...but I do know that there isn't a snowball's chance the people will be victorious in any revolution without communications, especially during the first 12 hours. During this time, the primary forces will be sweeping in and be well into clearing their primary objectives. Just like in Katrina, the people were alone in their homes. Imagine if they all had radios and could communicate and organize..."They're kicking in doors and confiscating guns!"...."Oh hell no, not in this lifetime!"..."Tom lay down cover fire to distract them, I will flank with Harry and cut them to pieces from the rooftop."..."Roger"



    On a side note, I was thinking...what if Arpaio really does "prove" Obama is a dirty rat Kenyan? And what if the media plays this up? What if the people react in force? Well, that's one possibility, I suppose. Although, many things are still possible at this point. I do know for a fact that .GOV is ready in every way for violent resistance. In fact, they're counting on it.
  9. BTPost

    BTPost Stumpy Old Fart,Deadman Walking, Snow Monkey Moderator

    Ok Monkeys, Broker is correct... Comms is the GLUE that makes or breaks ANY organization..... and it Starts with the Family.... do you have a Comms Plan for your family, if the normal Comms are not working?.... If your family is covered, how about your Group? How about a Comms Plan for your Group to other likeminded Groups, in your Region.... The last point I would like to make, HERE, is that Open, Unencrypted, Comms are worse than No comms at all.... They give the OpForce, more information about you, than you get by receiving the Message. So, What is the answer? We have Published "The Communications White Paper" in the Advanced Comms forum, that addresses these specific Issues. The technology is available, and free. At its basic level, it can be done, with a pencil, and paper. That Plan will give any Person, Family, Group, or extended Groups, a simple system for SECURE Messaging, that can be implemented very quickly, and is as SECURE as any Message System can be. ...... YMMV... and thanks for the reminder Brokor...... MonkeyNet needs to get moving....
    sgt peppersass likes this.
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