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whiz wheel for ballistics

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by CATO, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. CATO

    CATO Monkey+++

  2. BTPost

    BTPost Old Fart Snow Monkey Moderator

  3. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    A bespoke ballistic computer....I wonder how much they cost, and whether it will work on my Chelloveck atlatl Mk1?
  4. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    " It is custom made for your rifle and ammo and can be trued based on your actual bullet impact out to transonic range."
  5. enough

    enough Monkey++

    I've seen one, but not used it. Some people in class said that their values were comparing well to something else like this ... http://www.triadtactical.com/Field-Density-Altitude-Compensator.html

    They are still using formula based calculations. Whether its electronic, slide (or spin), or running off reference cards, claiming that you will be 100% out to 1100 yards is ridiculous. Todd Hodnett has some great teaching material, but I hate when he moves into "salesman" mode and tells you why Accuracy 1st goods are perfect.

    “We can tell you within one click where your bullet is within space and time from the moment it leaves the barrel until the time it hits transonic,” Berwington told Gun Digest. “If you gave us good information, I’ll guarantee you’ll hit every target from where you’re sitting out to a thousand meters with one round.”

    Wow, it totally removes shooter error! :)

    I will admit to adopting a Horus reticle though. When I miss that first shot, the second is ALWAYS on. ;)
  6. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    looks like the old E6B computer for aircraft navigation...
  7. Byte

    Byte Monkey+++

    Pics or you're pulling our legs...

    chelloveck likes this.
  8. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

  9. oldawg

    oldawg Monkey+++

    Pictures Chell and by the way you still owe us pics from your "feather boa "days as well!
    chelloveck likes this.
  10. chelloveck

    chelloveck Diabolus Causidicus

    Doh...you guys....your memory is better than I might have given credit...
    oldawg likes this.
  11. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    The collective lives!!!!
  12. kellory

    kellory An unemployed Jester, is nobody's fool. Banned

    No credit. Cash on the barrel head. Put up or shut up time!:D
  13. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    Actually had a couple meetings recently with Roger Brewington (I think the article got his name wrong) about some related work. The ballistic calculations in the whiz wheel are fundamentally the basis for these new research targeting computers.
    DARPA Awards $6 Contract for Development of One-Shot Rifle System for Snipers | TheBlaze.com

    Those systems need some electronics for calibration that he was talking to us about. He did suggest that the targeting solution is a fifth order differential equation. Saw the whiz wheels and played with them. As mentioned the rotating wheel is custom for the weapon and ammo and is laser engraved plastic so the numbers won't wear off. Trying to recall the price but 50 bucks as I recall. Discount for military. Seals use the wheel.

    We started asking Roger more detailed questions about the solution system but he said he couldn't answer. Between the several of us in the room we were able to formulate a pretty good guess about how these systems work. The primary curiosity still in my mind is the angle of beam spread the laser uses. Basically it is a LIDAR on it's side that feeds the ballistic solution with 3d wind information through the entire flight path. Probably then uses a mathematical solution similar to finite element analysis to compute the correction factors for a bullseye. Pretty cool stuff.

    NVBeav likes this.
  14. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    thankyou These have been around for a long time and cost is $30. Adding a string and weight lets you read the angle the bullet will follow which as it changes the range is important.

    If one knows the drop, as it removes the math, using it and the mil-dot reticle will produce accurate results. Although the mil-dot system is accurate and simple; same as everything else, it does have limitations especially if one lacks formal training with the system.

    A site explaining how to use the mil dot system: Mil-Dot
  15. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    Very similar concept. The difference as I understand it is the Accuracy 1st is not a generic bullet profile with a average muzzle velocity but is custom computed just for your rifle, bullet, load etc. and the solutions are engraved on the wheel. As I recall Roger said that Bryan Litz has a library now of ballistic coefficients for 1200 projectiles. I took some of his boasts with some skepticism but I believed that claim. The computations to create the numbers for the wheel are derived from fifth order differential equations that factor in a host of variables. So I think, maybe incorrectly, the Accuracy a more accurate and certainly more custom solution. For 50 bucks (I think it's 40 if you are in the military) doesn't seem like a bad deal. Probably would improve one's shooting far more than a 100 dollar or even a 400 dollar better scope but I'm just thinkin.

  16. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    The wheel is very well conceived and executed idea for a single caliber using the same weight, velocity and bullet type. As I shoot from 22 Hornet to 300 win including a few wild cats makes it too expensive for me. ;)

    The mil-dot master converts the measurements made with the dots into the range to target, foreshortens the distance when shooting up or down hill and the user supplies the drop.
    My own method is I run the load data through a ballistics program; then qualify it's drop at the range. It works right well for me. Another "training aid" is my weather station's anemometer which keeps wind doping skills fresh.

    Scopes are a subject all to themselves.
  17. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    Very cool. I've been in the market for a good varmint rifle and may give the wheel a shot (sorry, pun intended) for that but I do like your system for cost effective multiple solutions. Yeah, scopes being a whole muther topic, roger that!!

  18. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

  19. Airtime

    Airtime Monkey+++ Site Supporter

    Still looking. Not easy to decide when there are so many choices. Bolt action, got that part down. Thinking Remington 700 flavor or mabe a Savage or CZ. Heck I don't know. May end up depending upon what i come across. Would prefer stainless for this gun I think. Caliber I'm down to probably .204, 22-250 or .243. Pros and cons to each I know. Any strong recommendations??


  20. Tikka

    Tikka Monkey+++

    In bolt guns, Rem 700, Savage or Cz, all are good.

    As it has so many variables, caliber choice is challenging. By variables how far the terrain supports shooting to how much noise is acceptable.
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