Who Else is Surprised?

Discussion in 'Financial Cents' started by fireplaceguy, Nov 7, 2010.


  1. fireplaceguy

    fireplaceguy Monkey+

    Back when we were all anticipating this financial meltdown, did anyone ever think we would get this far with the house of cards still standing? Trillions injected into the bursting bubble. The Fed just announced another $600 billion of debt monetization and I'd guess over half our population doesn't even know what that is.

    I never imagined we could get this far without a complete loss of faith, bank runs and subsequent collapse...
     
  2. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    the FDIC has insured the banks to infinity.. there is no "cap" now. They fixed the bank run problem.
     
  3. Suerto

    Suerto Monkey+

    what about a run on US bonds, credit rating, by the rest of the world?
    they dont have a cap for that, and, when the Russians, Chinese, and other little players feel they got themselves secured, they'll move to run on the U.S., that's when TSHTF.. just sayin.

    The sheep are too busy trying to tread water, to notice anything past the daily hype.
     
  4. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    the Chinese hold a large number of our bonds and would cause their economy serious problems if the were to make a run on our bonds...

    It would cost them their major trading partner, increase the value of their currency high enough that their economy would suffer, and cost the chinese banking system a couple of hundred billion dollar at th least...
     
  5. Suerto

    Suerto Monkey+

    Not knocking your thoughts on it WD, but, lets just think outside the box here.. your thought process larger train of thought that talking heads are touting to keep the masses calm about the situation..
    Lets put it in terms we can wrap our heads around..

    when theres a run on a bank, its when individuals want to take reciept of thier hard currency, denoted by thier statement, which is basically a note stating that you "own" x amount of funds and are good for it, yet dont posses it, the bank holds it for you.

    isnt that the same premise for the bonds? that the chinese own? The U.S. government owns land, and large portions of it, that as of to date, are off limits to development.. What if the chinese (backed by other nations) come to the U.S. and demand access to federal land, for exploitation of raw materials that they need? In lieu of outright payment on the bonds.. The chinese have recently partnered with an american oil/gas company (Chesapeake) for development of the eagleford shale in southern Texas.. Now, this is unrelated to our current discussion, but, what if this is just the beginning?

    The chinese hold the purse strings, and as americans, I believe that is a hard concept for us to grasp, that we, as a nation, are beholden to any other country. They are not dependant on us, we are dependant on them. Yes thier markets will fluctuate, but, I would imagine america would hurt much worse as we import many cheap things from China. China has other markets to export to, India, Russia, Europe. We, do not export much anymore. We are a consumer market, and since the recession, our consumer purchasing has diminished a bit.

    just a hypothetical, something to chew on. Few of the talking heads and great leaders warned us of the housing bubble, or the rippling effect it would have across the economy.. To this day they tell us that we are out of the recession.. When you infuse billions of dollars into an economy and there is nothing more than a quarterly blip, I hardly call that a success.

    World governments are racing to devalue thier currencies, and china isnt happy about us trying to beat everybody else, because it hurts them too.. I personally feel that china, russia, germany, and france have something going on behind closed doors and it will not bode well for us.

    same thing with Iraq, france and germany didnt want us to invade because they had backdoor deals for oil with SH.. I got a feeling that the global leaders are prepping to trash america, whichever way makes them the most money and consolidates power will be the route they take. But, they cannot allow us to remain in any resemblance that we were meant to be, that is most prevelant, for it threatens thier plans for total global power.
     
  6. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    Worse case scenario the US could nationalize holdings by other countries.. not a great idea butquite feasable we would still have a large enough military presence that we would not be an easy target for any country, a re-evaluation of the US dollar and a return to the older days of manufacture would return...


    ]ust a thought...
     
  7. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    The other countries would also be taking a significant hair cut on their holdings. The chinese have been pegging their yuan to our dollar so they won't have to bail out and they won't "loose" anything or much if they do. This currency battle is between the US and the Chinese. Always has been.
     
  8. Seacowboys

    Seacowboys Senior Member Founding Member

    We got each got the sword of Damocles dangling over our heads and a sharp knife at each other's scrotum; this adds a new dimension to detente.
     
  9. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    It's classic. You loan to me, I loan to you. After a while, we both find ourselves owing an unsustainable amount, and we call the loans. Both croak. Europe has the same problem, rotating loans from each other to each other, and all are nervous.

    Who said, "Neither a borrower nor a lender be?"
     
  10. Suerto

    Suerto Monkey+

    Well, its when they feel enough is enough.. Sorta like cutting off a family member whose got a drug problem.. The difference is, that they are hedging themselves (with the rest of the world).. America on the other hand, has no hedge.. Or atleast, not one that I recognize. We have no way to dig ourselves out of this hole.

    Its like we are the ones digging the hole, and china is taking the dirt, they can always spread the dirt around to even things out, but we cant. Atleast thats how I am seeing it.
     
  11. Hispeedal2

    Hispeedal2 Nay Sayer

    That pretty much summed it up. The longer this goes on, the more of a long term change I see coming. Someone must agree because I heard it on the radio this morning too. A change from a consumable America with recreational shopping to a more conservative, frugal reality. As the dollar is devalued and food/everyday costs rise, less Americans are buying those Chinese imports. This Black Friday will be an indicator as to which way America will go. I think in the end, I legislative push toward a more independent economy will happen in the next 5 years.

    On man's recession is another man's depression.
     
  12. Suerto

    Suerto Monkey+

    what I'm concerned with, which will prolly happen, is that "the powers that be" will punish us for coming to our senses and not making them outrages amount of money anymore.. and so the dollar shall crash, and short calls will be made..
     
  13. ghrit

    ghrit Ambulatory anachronism Administrator Founding Member

    Saw a similar note in the news today, shoppers are not shopping, they are simply buying what's on their lists, and getting out of the malls and stores. Impulse buys are not happening. Strictly targeted buys. There was also something on the news tonight about people downsizing their possessions, giving them away and selling off the excess. Two people in a 4000 square foot house reduced their living area to around a quarter of that, the remainder of the house was left bare.

    I don't see a downside to reducing the conspicuous consumption. If imports are reduced, no matter where they come from, it can do nothing but improve our balance of trade.
     
  14. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    I'm not surprised. Me and a few others spoke of the coming collapse back in '06 and decided we'd call it the 'slow burn'. 10 years down, 10 years up and that it would be hard to tell it was a 'collapse event' because of the slow incremental slide. Protracted train wreck in slow motion... So slow that the passengers forget they are derailing. Titanic sinking over years instead of hours. Creeping joblessness but increasing welfare. Homes foreclosed but with increasing children coming home and brothers moving in with brothers. It's happeing but so slow you barely notice that 6 oz of shredded cheese now costs $3.50 (if you use your card and buy the house brand which may not be cheese at all).

    The economic collapse is an inverse bell with the bottom being the shortest duration.

    I believe we're only 3 years into the slide with another 7-10 to go. The upside or crawl out will be born of a totally different set of innovations for the times. Can you contribute?

    Then again, those were our thoughts 4 years ago and the seemingly destructive by design policies since then lead me to thoughts of a longer period of recovery. Now is the time to re-invent yourselves. Try to steer your children away from what was tried and true 15-20 years ago. I have advised my grown children to stop taking on student loans for more school as the 'jobs' just won't be there when they get out.

    I'll be teaching my 3 year old how to make soap and survive in an underground cottage industry economy.

    I've tried hard not to talk about my thoughts over the past few years because: I know that it's happening and there is no administration or congress that can fix it, the entire political system is a sham, many people think recovery is 'just around the corner', and way too many smart people still have a phobia of turban headed men who live in caves. It's just not worth preacher to those with deaf ears.

    I'm not surprised.
     
  15. Suerto

    Suerto Monkey+

    what unrealistic world of people do you hang out with? lol...

    My wife asked me if we could go 1 day without me bringing up anything to do with TEOTWAWKI.. 4hrs later she asked me about the wavelength of an EMP.. and if there was anyway we could protect her car against it.

    my flavor of crazy..
     
  16. melbo

    melbo Hunter Gatherer Administrator Founding Member

    Realtors and Corporate borgs. oh yeah, and bankers
     
  17. UGRev

    UGRev Get on with it!

    A year ago my wife thought I was loopy. This year we put in a garden and she started canning. I'm only half as loopy as I was and twice as right as I used to be. :)
     
  18. Witch Doctor 01

    Witch Doctor 01 Mojo Maker

    <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by Suerto [​IMG]
    what unrealistic world of people do you hang out with? lol...
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    Could be worse try a bunch of liberal professors...o_O
     
  19. Suerto

    Suerto Monkey+

    Yeah, when I returned from mexico and was talking to my buddy (who is my NYL financial advisor) and was telling him that once I broke even on my 401k I was gonna cash it in and I was telling him all my thoughts on the crash of the dollar, he agreed with everything I was saying.. Yet still implored that I not cash in the 401k, half-heartedly giving me some retirement reason and such..

    I was married to English Professors daughter, flaming libs.. I can imagine thier giddiness with helping the poor with universal healthcare.. My ex wife could not handle money to save her life either.. She was fun to party with though... Didnt make a good wife.
     
  20. Falcon15

    Falcon15 Falco Peregrinus

    OK, I'm going to play the game. here are my .02 cents:
    [soap]
    1st: The Federal Reserve Bank is A: Unconstitutional, and B: NOT a government agency.

    2nd: You want to fix this problem? It will hurt financially for the first 5-10 years, but in 15 we will again be the richest nation on the planet.

    "How is that?", you ask me.

    Simple. Repeal the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, which incidentally led to a major cause and perpetuation of the Great Depression, give Congress the power to issue currency as outlined in our Constitution meaning only gold or silver currency (or backed currency) is legal tender in the US. The Congress can recall currency, say, 20's one month, then re-issue a set amount of $20 bills that are backed by actual reserved gold and silver. Rinse, wash, repeat for each bill in circulation. It has been done (when we came off the gold standard) and can be done again.

    Huh? Too simple? The fluctuating market makes gold & silver too unstable to base or back our currency on? Meadow Muffins, says I. With the advent growth of China as an economic consumer of mass quantities on par with the US during the 1960's and growing in demand daily our gold and silver continue to gain value, daily. One of the most powerful, well researched documentaries on this subject is available FREE online. I am not shilling, I am urging all of us Survival Monkeys to educate ourselves, and others.

    We are hostages of 12 major banking families. The Federal Reserve exists to create a debt based society. They tell the Federal Government how much money the mint can print, then LOAN it to the Government and make INTEREST off of this LOAN. REMEMBER, IN OUR SOCIETY IT IS WHO CONTROLS THE QUANTITY OF OUR MONEY THAT GIVES GREAT POWER! They are creating money from NOTHING and getting RICH doing it! That bill is past due, with a huge amount of interest now. NOW.

    Link for the vid, if you have 2 hours now or later it is a must see. THIS IS A FACT BASED DOCUMENTARY, ALL OF THE FACTS ARE IRREFUTABLE:

    YouTube - The Secret of Oz - English - FREE.mov
     
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